Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): Welcome back to the show, everyone. If you’ve ever been in a room and thought to yourself, I think they hired the wrong person, then this is the podcast for you today because we’re going to be diving in with our expert, Dr. Angela Trigo, all about getting that self-confidence and avoiding that impostor syndrome. So, welcome Angela. We’re so excited to have you today. Yeah. Thank you so much for joining us, Angela. And for everyone listening, we’d love to hear a little bit more about her. So, Dr. Angela Trigo is a rocket scientist turned confidence and communication expert and is a number one best-selling author of the book Squashing the Imposter Syndrome. I have to say, I want to stop right there for a sec because this is one of the most interesting intros I’ve ever heard for someone, which is super cool. Squashing. Yeah, exactly. And Angela worked at a she was a Fortune 500 engineering leader um

Angela Trego (Guest): Right.

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): award-winning keynote and educator keynote speaker and educator. She has trained thousands of professionals across six continents to strengthen confidence as a skill so they can communicate more effectively, lead more boldly, and contribute at their full potential. um she’s done all sorts of different programs around these different practices and you can learn more at angelatrigo.com. So we’ll put that link in uh the show notes for you. And I just want to say I met Angela at the 30 Utah business 30 women to watch and she is incredible and has this incredible personality so lively. I mean, she was on the red carpet doing something like crazy. And so, she really has put that confidence and squashing the impostor syndrome to use. And so, I personally would love to learn from her

Angela Trego (Guest): Oh, you guys are kind.

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): today.

Angela Trego (Guest): Thank you so much. I’m excited to be here and excited to see how we can help your viewers.

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): Definitely. And let’s just start off the bat with your rocket science.

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): You are a rocket scientist, but right now your focus is people leaders. How did you go from that to I will say most engineers I know they’re not people people. So how did you get to that

Angela Trego (Guest): Yeah, most are not.

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): point?

Angela Trego (Guest): I agree with that wholeheartedly. Um, you know, I never set out to leave engineering. Uh, in in many ways, engineering led me to where I’m at today. I spent more than two decades working for the Boeing company, uh, ATK, doing rocket technologies, cool things. I moved into medical device world. I I did enjoy solving the technical problems and developing new technologies, but as my career progressed, I I realized there were a couple other things that captured my attention. And I realized what truly energized me was not the problem that I was working on to solve. It was watching the people around me grow. And especially as I moved into management and into teaching, I I had this aha moment that I enjoy developing people more than things.

Angela Trego (Guest): I became increasingly drawn to understanding what separates those who contribute fully and those who hold themselves back and why that’s occurring and how to help those individuals. I also noticed that technical expertise wasn’t necessarily the biggest predictor of success. Again and again I was watching these highly capable, very smart individuals and they were holding themselves back. They had the knowledge, they had the credentials but they hesitated speaking up. They hesitated to take that risk to learn something new to take on that new project. And I experienced this myself. I had struggles with this. And so that’s really one of the big foundations for me of how I moved into being a people leader was just seeing these experiences and having this passion of how can I help these individuals and organizations build that confidence as a skill so that people can contribute at their full potential.

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): Right.

Angela Trego (Guest): Great.

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. Honestly, I feel like this could apply to so many different industries where you have someone who, you know, they provide a service or they produce a product and they’re really passionate about that, but nothing gets done without the human touch point at some stage along the way.

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): And so the people doing the work, that’s the true differentiator. And I think that’s so cool that you made that um you had that aha moment and made the change and now you are where you are. That’s very impressive. Yeah. And we want to hear about your book and what led you to write that. And you kind of told me earlier what your personal experience was and I can relate to that. So tell us about that and tell us about your

Angela Trego (Guest): Yeah. So,

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): book.

Angela Trego (Guest): the book Squashing the Imposter Syndrome grew out of both my own personal experience, but also continued conversations that I continued to have over and over again. Um, you know, as I think about my book, I kept having these conversations and I would be talking and it didn’t matter if I was talking with a CEO

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): All

Angela Trego (Guest): and some executive, if I was talking with a leader at a community event, a church interaction, my neighbors,

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): right.

Angela Trego (Guest): parents.

Angela Trego (Guest): I kept hearing again and again, I don’t feel qualified. I don’t belong here. Everyone else has figured it out, right? And I had those same thoughts myself, but these individuals that were telling me this had the capabilities. They just couldn’t see it in themselves. Right? So this book amongst all other things,

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): Mhm.

Angela Trego (Guest): I want you to, after you read this book, be motivated and hopeful. But what I really want you to do is understand how to squash the impostor syndrome. I’ve got practical tools, relatable tools that you can immediately use. It’s a workbook. It’s a reference book. It’s going to give them examples and strategies that they can apply right away. Um, I think part of this bringing this book to light also comes from the fact that all too often as I’m having these conversations and they’re telling me right that I don’t belong at the table, they think that they’re the only ones that are experiencing that feeling when in fact a majority of individuals experience it to some degree or another.

Angela Trego (Guest): And so I I want to help normalize the fact that so many people experience imposter syndrome. And there are tools, there are capabilities to overcome imposter syndrome to gain that confidence. Confidence is not something you’re born innately with typically, but it’s something that you can foster and grow. It is a skill that you can build and strengthen with practice.

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah, I can attest. I did purchase Angela’s uh K. I purchased the Kindle version on Amazon and you know sometimes I feel like these business books, culture books, they can be a little fluffy. But this one, squashing the impostor syndrome, like she said, it has those practical examples. It’s definitely written by a scientist, but it’s also relatable and practical and useful. And so, and I’m not done yet, but so far that I I can definitely attest to that.

Angela Trego (Guest): That’s awesome.

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): I remember one and I’d love to hear your uh take on this and maybe talk to us about some other situations that you’ve seen people in um where they were having this experience but they didn’t know it was impostor syndrome.

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): Sometimes identifying it is the first step to right you know moving forward. But I remember I was at a previous employer. I was tasked with doing a company culture survey at uh or reporting on a company culture survey survey in a leadership meeting, but I had volunteered to do that initiative. There wasn’t an owner of that project. And so I didn’t feel like it was fully my place that I was just kind of the new guy reporting on this thing that I wanted to help with. Um, and I received feedback after the meeting that it was good content, but that the presentation wasn’t very good. And then I remember fast forward a little bit, I was actually changed to a different position where I was the owner of employee feedback. And then when I had my next presentation, it was quite a bit different night and day because I knew I was the owner of the thing instead of just trying to insert myself into that.

Angela Trego (Guest): Right.

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): That was probably for me the the biggest moment where I noticed feeling like

Angela Trego (Guest): Yeah. And there’s so many different situations.

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): that.

Angela Trego (Guest): My book is written scenario-based looking at for example you’re the only one in the room or you do have to give a talk and those are I tried to pick right broad ranging areas that apply whether you’re at home or work but certainly a lot of times we don’t know that we have impostor syndrome or we don’t know that terminology or phrase. I know when I first started experiencing imposter syndrome, I didn’t put a name to it until quite honestly decades later. It was just that I I knew I lacked that confidence and I was

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): Wow.

Angela Trego (Guest): silent and I was quiet as a result.

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): So tell us about the turning point you had. What helped you? Maybe you didn’t identify it specifically as imposter syndrome, but when was it? Was there a specific moment where you were like, you know what? I’ve got this. I I know what I’m talking

Angela Trego (Guest): Yeah, absolutely. Um,

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): about.

Angela Trego (Guest): one of the biggest misconceptions of lack of confidence in imposter syndrome is that if I have enough achievements, have enough credentials, then then I’m finally going to be good. And that’s not true, right? It’s not the credentials we have. It’s not the accolades. It’s the internal story we’re telling ourselves. Um, I had an advanced degree from a great university, Brigham Young University, and I went and started to work for the Boeing company, Phantom Works, which by the way is as cool as it sounds. I got to work on a lot of really cool projects. But I walked into that job and I was the only female out of 200 men in that engineering

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): Whoa.

Angela Trego (Guest): group.

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): Wow.

Angela Trego (Guest): Add to the fact that I was the only right, not only was I the only woman, but I was a good 10 to 15 years younger than everybody else in that organization as well.

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): Oh,

Angela Trego (Guest): So I immediately had, oh my gosh, they hired the wrong person.

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): wow.

Angela Trego (Guest): They are going to fire me the minute they realize that they hired the wrong person. And I went to work every day for many months with that feeling. Every time my boss would call me, I’m like, “Oh my gosh, now they finally realize that I don’t right, that they hired the wrong person.” I I think I lost like years off of my life from that, right? But I So,

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): Oh

Angela Trego (Guest): as a result,

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): man.

Angela Trego (Guest): I was only an okay engineer. Very frank and honest about that. I’d sit in the corner. I wouldn’t offer any insight. I’m right. I was a yes woman. I wouldn’t volunteer for extra assignments. If I thought of something different than somebody else, I wouldn’t ask for it. I just kind of went I I went and I did my work, but I wasn’t showing the skills and capabilities that I really had or could do because I lacked that confidence. I had imposter syndrome.

Angela Trego (Guest): But I had a mentor uh that actually was my PhD adviser and someone that I had continued to talk with and he really started challenging me to stop dismissing my success of oh gosh I am actually going and doing this and I was always amazed and saying how lucky I was that I was there or it was just good timing or somebody else’s contribution that was occurring there. Instead, he really encouraged me to start looking at my specific skill sets, my decisions I was making, and how those actions led to positive outcomes. And the shift from me thinking, “No, I’m not very good at this.” And writing down concrete black and white, this is what I’ve done, this is my skill, this is my capability, started to turn into something very measurable. and realizing this evidence instead of emotion that I was using. And I remember I was sitting in a supplier meeting and they were talking about an a specific aircraft that they were working on. And I looked around the room and I realized, oh my gosh, I I I know the answer to this question.

Angela Trego (Guest): This is a technical question and I know the answer to this. Wait a minute. I’m the only person in the room that knows the answer to this question, right? And all of a sudden, the light bulb went off and these measurable items, clear evidence that no, I do belong at that table. And that really shifted what I did and my own potential and my group and team’s potential. All of a sudden, I became someone that holds patents, has things up in space, um, you know, asking for more work, doing more things, challenging the status quo. And it really completely changed the trajectory of my own career, but it also really helped my company too, right? And that feels good, and we want that. And that really set a lot of that foundation for what I do today where figuring out that confidence isn’t isn’t something we’re born with. It’s not just luck that a few people get that, but it’s something that we can actually deliberately practice and develop.

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): I think that’s amazing.

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): And I think of different personalities, but I also think about different confidences. Sometimes you have people who are so confident in themselves or maybe overconfident that before they even have had time to think for an answer to a question or solving a problem, they’re spewing out the information that really isn’t, you know, the solution that the problem needs. And so I think in your case, in that scenario, you had the time thankfully since no one else was just regurgitating the information, you had the time to think what that strategic response would be. And I think that it is a lesson in and of itself, just taking a minute to say what I have to offer in this discussion and being okay with it taking a minute.

Angela Trego (Guest): Yeah,

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): So,

Angela Trego (Guest): definitely. And and what you were referencing actually is called the 

Dunning Krueger effect where we

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): oh I forgot to

Angela Trego (Guest): where we have where we have zero skill but

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): name.

Angela Trego (Guest): high thoughts of ourselves, right?

Angela Trego (Guest): And the overconfidence factor which is kind of the opposite of imposttor syndrome where we actually have those capabilities but lack the confidence.

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah, that’s so interesting. Very interesting. So, I I love how open you are about your own experiences.

Angela Trego (Guest): So,

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): Um, and you’ve kind of said confidence is not a personality trait. It’s a skill. So, is there a connection between confidence, communication, and the kind of workplace performance that actually moves the needle in your

Angela Trego (Guest): yes,

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): opinion?

Angela Trego (Guest): confidence. It’s the foundation which allows talent to show up. Uh most organizations spend a significant amount of resources on technical skills, leadership skills, and those investments are really important. I I teach some of those myself. But if you don’t have the confidence to use those skills, much of your potential remains untapped. Just, you know, I am just talking about my Boeing experience. I had the skills. I wasn’t using them because I lacked that confidence. And confidence affects whether someone speaks up to an idea, um, asks a question, volunteers for a challenge, wants to learn a new skill.

Angela Trego (Guest): It all relates to that. Um, as an engineer, I learned that the best solutions come from exploring an entire design space. But if that person right if if organizations can’t do that and if people are sitting silently and not providing that contrary viewpoint maybe or that different idea because they’re afraid to speak up then that person that’s holding that perfect solution doesn’t allow that problem to be solved. So it’s so important because that confidence really does affect

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): No.

Angela Trego (Guest): communication. It influences collaboration, engagement, performance. Um if people lack that confidence, organizations see their teams hesitating, silence, avoiding missed opportunities. Um but if they build that confidence and use those skills that they have then they can come forward, contributing to their full potential and willing to take those actions that really create the results that we need to be successful as businessmen.

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): I have a super quick sports metaphor for those who relate to that side of things.

Angela Trego (Guest): Done.

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): And I shared this with Angela earlier, but um playing not to lose is so much more different than playing to win.

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): I’m I’m a tennis player and when I’m playing not to lose, like whether I it’s my doubles partner and I’m like, I don’t want to let them down, you know, or or just like I can’t I can’t lose this. I can’t lose this or I’m going to lose my job. I can’t lose my job. then the scenario, the way that I contribute or play or compete is so different than if I’m like I am gonna win this. I am gonna show what I’m made of. So, that’s just something I thought of when we were talking. But it almost feels like um it’s imposing a not psychologically safe work environment in your own head to to not allow for that confidence of like you’re imposing this. Yeah. Sometimes that is workplace imposed. Sometimes it’s Yeah. I I think about like the contract that you made Angela around um you know overly

Angela Trego (Guest): Just

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): confidence without the skills and maybe lacking confidence but high skills and I’ve been a team leader as well in the workplace and I’ve seen individuals who they’re learning actually how to do the work and so they maybe rightfully so don’t have competence on day one because it’s brand new but then you help them build the confidence along the Okay.

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): But I’ve also seen people who know how to do that thing. Um but maybe they’re not engaged very well or or they feel like you’re being held back for various reasons. And both of those are not good like speaking to the CFOs in the room. They’re not good for the bottom line and they’re in the business interest in

Angela Trego (Guest): right?

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): helping all of your staff across the board from entry level to um executive to be confident while also caring like we don’t want a team full of people who are so confident they’re just up in people’s faces you know but I think you know pairing the kind communication like I’m I’m thinking of radical candor for those of you who have heard of that book That seems like a perfect pairing with um this conversation of being confident and kind as

Angela Trego (Guest): Yeah, 100%. You you do have to worry about that whole pride level,

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): well.

Angela Trego (Guest): right? and forgetting. But really the idea is if we aren’t, if we lack this confidence then we’re not going to get anywhere.

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): Damn.

Angela Trego (Guest): And so it is a fine balance between cockiness and confidence. And I’m talking about confidence not cockiness. Most definitely.

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): So, what’s one thing someone can do today for our listeners? What can they do to squash their own imposttor syndrome?

Angela Trego (Guest): Yeah. So, if you’re listening right now and realize, woo, this is me. First off, you’re not alone. Okay. You’re not alone or know somebody who does it, right? I’m sure there’s somebody in your team. That’s great.

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): Who’s

Angela Trego (Guest): That’s right. Yeah. But the first step is surprisingly simple.

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): so?

Angela Trego (Guest): But that doesn’t necessarily mean super easy. Pause and question the story you’re telling yourself. When that voice says, “Oo, do I belong here?” Instead of just accepting that, ask, “Wait, what is the evidence that I have that actually for that? That I don’t belong.” Most of the time that evidence is not going to support the conclusion that you don’t belong.

Angela Trego (Guest): That moment right where you start to separate fact from feeling is where that starts to shift and that is where you start squashing the imposttor syndrome and building your

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): Holy cow.

Angela Trego (Guest): confidence.

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): That’s very powerful and uh very succinct. I love that. I I think so for sure check out Angela Trio. She has her own website. Um, but one thing we didn’t talk about today is confidence and pre presenting and whether it’s you’re selling something may maybe it’s just selling initi an initiative to your uh people leader but whatever it is everyone can improve in this area of of owning your confidence and like Matt Matt said earlier with when he felt like he didn’t own a project his his presenting skills were poor. squashing the imposttor syndrome. When you’ve accomplished that, your presenting skills become better 100%. You’re less nervous, you’re more articulate, more brief in your language, and and your confidence shows and is felt by those listening.

Angela Trego (Guest): 100% agree. Yes.

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): Well, thank you so much for your time, Angela, today. Everyone, go check out her book. Um, it’s available on Kindle and Amazon, and we’ll link to it in our highlight article. check out her website and she has a whole host of different resources that you can access as well. So, please check it out, connect with her on LinkedIn and tune in for our next episode. Thanks, Angela. Yeah, thank you,

Angela Trego (Guest): Thank you.

Matt &  Crista Vance (Hosts): Angela.

Angela Trego (Guest): Appreciate it.