Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) Welcome everyone to today’s episode of The Culture Profit. Building an authentic employment brand means moving past corporate speak to find the human stories that truly resonate. Today we’re chatting with an impressive Emmy award-winning former television journalist to explore strategic storytelling of your EVP to drive greater engagement results. So, Jen, thank you so much for being with us today.

Jenn Spantak (Guest) Thanks for having me. I’m excited to be here.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) Yeah, we’re so excited, too. And I’m about to share a little bit about Jen. So, Jen Spantak, an Emmy award-winning former television journalist as Matt mentioned, turned marketing and communications leader who builds enterprise brand and content strategies for Fortune 500 companies. Early in her career, she covered major national breaking news, earning an Emmy for her reporting on the shooting of Congresswoman Gabrielle Gfords. So crazy. Today, she partners with executive leaders to manage multi-million dollar marketing investments and translates complex corporate visions into authentic storytelling campaigns that drive engagement and action. And that was something that drew us to you as well, that storytelling component.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) That’s what we’ve heard about you. We’re excited to hear more about what you do. Tell us about that transition. That’s pretty crazy like going I mean they’re both storytelling but it’s it’s also like wow that’s quite a jump right journalism to

Jenn Spantak (Guest) Yeah, I mean I’m I would say I was always a storyteller.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) marketing

Jenn Spantak (Guest) Um when I was younger, I got the nickname tape recorder recorder from my parents and my family. I was the kid that always sat around and kind of eased dropped on the adult conversations and probably repeated them at inappropriate inappropriate times. Um, so I had that natural curiosity. I I loved understanding complexity, translating that into like these stories that people would listen to. And so I really used that natural curiosity to go into journalism. Um, as a TV news producer, there were days that I had to walk into someone’s life on the hardest days of their lives. um and and talk to them, build trust quickly. And you can’t really go into that with a, hey, I want you to go and tell me your story.

Jenn Spantak (Guest) You really have to go into it with empathy. You really have to understand what that person is going through. Um and so I use those skills to transition into the corporate world because ultimately that’s what corporate America is trying to do. They’re trying to win trust. They’re trying to translate that complexity. They’re trying to get people to understand their mission, their strategy, their values. their purpose. And it’s not just the words, the slogans, the corporate language. It’s like how do you really get to the heart of the story and connect with people? And you really need to start with that empathy, that listening, and really get to the heart of things.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) And how do you feel? What’s the point? Why the point of sharing these emotional stories? I mean I can guess but what from your perspective like what do you see happens when these stories are told and shared?

Jenn Spantak (Guest) I think it’s really about building connections. It’s a deep human need.

Jenn Spantak (Guest) We all want to feel that belonging. We all want to feel a connection. Storytelling is an ancient art. You know, that’s how history started. That’s where the history books came from,

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) Seriously?

Jenn Spantak (Guest) you know. Iif you want to get into religion, the Bible is just a series of stories. And so it’s really what helps us understand one another and it’s what helps us to connect with one

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) Yeah. I think honestly that’s very true from e even from our perspective with mob where

Jenn Spantak (Guest) another.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) we look at employee reviews and that’s one form of people sharing their story um publicly online but the more uh tangible personal um emotional yeah drawing on the emotion side of storytelling for conveying you know that employer value proposition and what it’s like to work at a company Um, it’s a big part of people’s lives and no wonder people really care about the job searching process because it’s a big deal. It’s not like they’re buying a vacuum because that’s a really small touch point in someone’s life.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) And so, you know, you’re doing work that impacts a significant component of people’s lives. tell us a little bit more about just your approach to storytelling when it comes to employer branding and how do you do that? Like what’s your

Jenn Spantak (Guest) I mean, the first thing is listening.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) approach?

Jenn Spantak (Guest) I mean, active listening. I kind of mentioned it a little bit earlier, like don’t go into this or just trying to get the story. You know, it’s not an in-n-out. I mean, you have to truly care about these individuals. You have to want to know their stories. Like I said, I have this natural sense of curiosity and wanting to understand people and understand things and like I go deeper, you know? Um it’s not just like, oh, we have an inclusive culture and the token, you know, slogan or brand line that’s out there. It’s like, well, what does that mean to you? Tell me more about that. You know what I mean?

Jenn Spantak (Guest) And like really getting deeper, getting to the root of like, why does somebody think that? Why does somebody feel that way? And again, going back to that common human thread, people want to feel belonged. Belonging, safety, trust, growth, purpose. They want to feel seen. They want to feel valued. And it’s like those things that none of us can really dispute as individuals. So, how do you dig deeper to get to those core human needs and human wants? And so, that’s where I think like I have this little Spidey sense or or skill to be able to kind of keep going and asking why. You know, if you’re familiar with the lean methodology, it’s kind of the five W’s, you know, like why to get to that root cause and digging deeper. I don’t stop at that surface level. It’s not the first answer, you know what I mean? Um I tell people when I interview them, I’m always like, I may ask you the same question what feels like 20 times, but it’s not because I’m not listening to you.

Jenn Spantak (Guest) It’s because there’s more to the answer than what maybe you’re originally letting on to.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) Yeah, I see.

Jenn Spantak (Guest) And so that’s where I think is like really really important and really powerful because even during my own career I’ve been able to to kind of unearth these these different stories and like we talked a little bit about that belonging that inclusion and it’s like I remember one time when my team and I we were doing this story of um a former heroin addict and he essentially had hit rock bottom and I mean he was

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) Wow.

Jenn Spantak (Guest) homeless. He lost everything his, and,  but hitting that rock bottom was a pivotal moment for

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) Good

Jenn Spantak (Guest) him of like, hey,

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) morning.

Jenn Spantak (Guest) I’m gonna get my life back together and he did and he got clean. He started pulling his life together. But there’s a lot of stigma that comes with that too, you know, once you’ve once you’ve been to that place like winning back trust from people. So, he’s going out and he’s applying for jobs and he’s getting rejected left and right, you know, and then he finally is given an opportunity and he comes into this workforce and he’s he’s authentic about who he is and where he’s been and his experience and people are welcoming to him and people understand and they admire his journey and that’s a level of like storytelling that showcases that inclusion that like just saying, “Hey, I feel included in the workforce.” it doesn’t capture it.

Jenn Spantak (Guest) So being able to tell that story and showcase to people like, hey, this is what inclusion looks like in our workforce is really

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) That’s incredible. And if you think about these pe like someone with a story like that and and he’s for sure not

Jenn Spantak (Guest) powerful.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) the only one out there how difficult it would be to keep getting rejected and rejected. I mean that’s enough to put you right back in where you were where you started. It takes so much grit and persistence for them to come out of this. And so to hear that there’s organizations that are willing to embrace inclusivity whether somebody has a background like that or not is amazing.

Jenn Spantak (Guest) And what does it say about the company?

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) Yeah.

Jenn Spantak (Guest) You know what I mean? Obviously, like he put in the work. He was clean. He went through all the proper, you know, checks and balances and things like that. So, it’s it’s giving people second chances and and you know, believing in people and recognizing, you know, people make mistakes and that’s

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Nobody’s perfect.

Jenn Spantak (Guest) okay.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) We’re all here to learn and grow. And I think that’s, you know, part of that human journey and where work intersects especially. So, Jen, just digging a little deeper here for other people that are listening to this episode, I think they’re likely to be catching on to the need for digging deeper and really showcasing that emotional component of the story. What does it look like in application? Is this a video interview on a career page? Is this a series of social media posts? Like, tell us how the story is. Yeah. How the storytelling materializes in application for an

Jenn Spantak (Guest) Yeah, I mean I truly believe in taking an integrated approach.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) employer.

Jenn Spantak (Guest) And so that’s where I mean I think there’s multiple different ways you have to look at it. One, you have to know your interview subject and what they feel comfortable with. Um, obviously coming from a TV producer background, video tends to be more of like my bread and butter and where I feel comfortable with.

Jenn Spantak (Guest) Um, I think a lot of times people might not feel comfortable on camera at first, but especially if it’s more of a pre-recorded interview, people will start to open up. Um, I’ve also found I’ll share a little trick that I tend to do. I’ll always go through the formal questions, but then I’ll be like, “Okay, last question.” I’ll ask one more question and then I’ll be like, “Anything else you want to say?” And I feel like once you kind of give them that prompt of the last question, people like to let their guard down. And so a lot of times after you ask that last question and then you’re like, “What else do you want?

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) Oh

Jenn Spantak (Guest) Like, did I do anything else you want to say?” They kind of recap to themselves like everything.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) yeah.

Jenn Spantak (Guest) And then sometimes it’s a little bit more natural. And then sometimes you find the conversation just continuing very naturally and like they’ve they’ve gone out of that, oh my gosh, I’m in camera mode, you know what I mean?

Jenn Spantak (Guest) And then they just let loose and it’s a totally different environment. Um, so I think looking at the medium, it really does depend on the subject matter, but I do believe it, like I said, in taking that integrated approach. You can take a story and you can have a long form, you know, on YouTube. You can use quote cards on social media. um some of the campaigns that we’ve done, we’ve always taken an internal and external approach. I believe especially when you look at an employer brand, recruitment, marketing, internal communications or you know any type of the employee methodologies, I do believe that you have to increase your employees confidence in your organization as well as win trust externally. So it is truly that win-win approach. So it’s like okay maybe we want to show these stories or tell these stories internally to our employees. Maybe you want to put them on a facility screen in the lunchrooms. Maybe you want to, you know, I don’t know, have a little table tent, you know, with a QR code.

Jenn Spantak (Guest) Um maybe it’s, you know, putting it in a town hall, you know, and again, there’s just different ways that you can tell the story. And it’s not that you have to take that same long story and put it in every single place, but maybe it’s a quote with the employee’s photo. You know what I mean? Maybe it’s a recognition. Maybe it’s related to driving your strategy, you know what I mean? And showcasing your strategy and action and what does that look like? What does success look like? Um at one point in my career we we were doing a lot on um working with quality and kind of improving quality and there was some internal efforts around that and there was a lot of buzzwords and I remember you know coming into the project and like not really understanding all of that and then digging again digging deeper and understanding like well what is the true issue here like what is happening and really what was coming down to is just like collaboration like getting engineers ers and manufacturing employees to work closer together.

Jenn Spantak (Guest) Um there were times when engineers made really great designs, but they don’t think about it from the manufacturing process. So it’s like, hey, we put together this great design, but it’s kind of like going to IKEA and there’s 11 different screws. And when you’re a manufacturing employee trying to wear all the PPE and you have all these little itty bitty screws and each one’s different, things happen. And that’s not anybody’s fault, but when you get them together and you have that conversation and you tell that story or you demonstrate, you take an engineer and you put them in the manufacturing person’s shoes, then light bulbs start going off and then it starts making sense to

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) You know, I love how you’re talking about the internal component as well of both,

Jenn Spantak (Guest) people.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) you know, connecting your team members for, you know, a better perspective, but also the showcasing of your employer brand internally to help, you know, reinforce those things that you’re really trying to strive for I mean that’s to me that’s living the values within a company and um all those people talk your entire workforce you know and so giving them things to talk about that are um the things that you value and the things that you’re striving to accomplish from an employee experience perspective is huge because it’s it’s informing those natural conversations that happen between employees and employee and employees and job seekers and what they may share online.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) And so it’s kind of a natural way to feed some of those conversations in a genuine and authentic manner as well. So I think that piece really stood out to me. Very powerful.

Jenn Spantak (Guest) Well, and I always tell people like especially from an employer brand recruitment marketing standpoint. I can spend all of the money in the world on paid media, paid advertising and stuff, but like nobody really cares what you as your company has to say. They want to hear what your employees have to say. If your neighbor or your loved one tells you, “Hey, I work at this place and they’re amazing.” that is gonna make so much

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) Okay.

Jenn Spantak (Guest) of a difference compared to any billboard I can put up on a street corner or any, you know, LinkedIn ad. Like, you’re going to believe the person that you trust. People connect with people and so that’s where having that employee advocacy is so important.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) Yeah.

Jenn Spantak (Guest) That’s also where I think internal communications come into play.

Jenn Spantak (Guest) you know, I h I I’ve worked a lot in employee communications as well. And I think that’s where there’s some synergies with like employer brand, recruitment, marketing is like how do you bring it all together to tell those stories internally and externally so that you’re not only driving the strategy, but then you’re also, you know, attracting the talent who want to be part of that mission to your organization.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) I feel a stat coming on from Matt about doctors being trusted less than Yeah. You know, no, definitely this is a study that I reference a lot. HubSpot did a study around trustworthiness and found doctors about half of consumers trust their doctor, which is kind of crazy in and of itself, but you go all the way down to the list, they looked at all these different professions, salespeople and marketers were trusted 3% and politicians 1%. But you know, you look at some of the stats around consumers and reviews. Um 85% of people trust reviews as much as a personal recommendation.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) So if you can let the peers of your target audience be the vehicle for sharing that message, then that trust goes way up. Um, just like what you’re saying. I’m curious. I’ve got two questions, Jen. Um because you are just the source of a lot of wisdom in this area. The first is let’s say you’re talking to a more experienced employer brands professional. What’s one thing you’ve seen that can level up your strategy? And then the second question is what do you say to the brand new person starting out? Where is the budget constraint option like the person that’s just barely deciding to even have a careers page like where do you start for that person?

Jenn Spantak (Guest) Huh, that’s a good question. I have to think about it for a minute. Um, I think for the more experienced employer, brand recruitment, marketing person, um, I would say make sure you really are taking that integrated approach. Make sure your team’s all driving towards the same goals. Make sure that they’re working together.

Jenn Spantak (Guest) Um I think that makes a world of a difference. If you can get your team to rally around a common mission, a common cause, um common goals, I think that’s going to elevate the team in such a way that’s going to mature the team, but it’s also going to make them more passionate about the mission, which is going to exude out into the workforce. It’s going to exude into the work. The work is going to speak for itself. Um, at least that’s been my experience like leading teams over my career and again not just in employer brand but in other areas, communications and and stuff.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) Yeah.

Jenn Spantak (Guest) It’s like having that team dynamic if they all believe in it and they all really, you know, want to do it and they believe in it like that’s going to move mountains, you know. Um, for someone that’s maybe more entry level, maybe they’re not even a people manager, maybe they’re just part of a team, maybe, you know, they’re just starting out.

Jenn Spantak (Guest) I would just say don’t silence your own inner dialogue. Like, and what I mean by that is when I started in corporate America or when I was trying to start into corporate America and I was trying to get out of TV news, um, I did a lot of interviews and I felt really dumb in those interviews. I’ll be completely honest with you. Um, people would come in and they’d start talking about all these acronyms and this corporate jargon and I was just like, “Oh my gosh, TV news has completely destroyed me.” I’m never gonna leave this industry because no one’s ever gonna give me a job. Like I’m dumb. All these things, all those inner things that obviously weren’t true. And then finally, someone gave me a chance and I walked into the organization and I started asking questions because again, I’m a naturally curious person. And some of the responses I was getting were like those same corporate lines. I remember somebody actually pulled up a website and read me the blurb of like when I asked about something and I’m like but I don’t understand what that means.

Jenn Spantak (Guest) Like tell me what it means, you know? And like I found really quickly that like in some of those situations, nobody really knew truly knew what it meant themselves. And so I wasn’t dumb. We were all just regurgitating like the same headlines and the same messaging but not really understanding it. So sometimes coming in as the new person like you have that fresh perspective and sometimes and it’s not out of malice you know we all are just super close to the work sometimes and when you’ve worked in a in an organization or an industry for so long you you forget what it’s like to be the new person. So for the new person, like that’s an opportunity for you to teach and mentor some of the more experienced people to take that step back and be like, “Hey, maybe the average person doesn’t really understand what this means.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) Yeah, I mean I think about just this conversation that we’re having right now. uh we usually come prepared with an idea of what kind of questions we want to ask you and then it just turns into a conversation and we just start talking and and I think that’s where it needs to come from is that genuine curiosity like you’re saying just caring about people and and caring about what a company is trying to do and seeing if you can actually put it into practice.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) So any final thoughts you have around this of Speaking of the final thoughts question that you have anything else you’d like to add? Anything else you have? Um yeah, just any other advice that you’d give to leaders in this

Jenn Spantak (Guest) Um,

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) face.

Jenn Spantak (Guest) I would say just throughout my career, I really believe strongly in being a proactive strategic advisor. And that’s a buzz word. I know that. Like, what does that mean, Jen? Like, having a seat at the table from the beginning. I have been very fortunate in my career in certain times where like we are just starting projects and like I’m literally just sitting in a room for 18 months listening and like but like seeing how the sausage is made is really helpful when you have to go like create a communication plan and put together FAQs and stuff like that. Um, and it’s so valuable that that context, but I’ve also been on the other side of that too where someone just brings you in at the last minute and they’re like, hey, we need a recruitment marketing campaign and we need it up tomorrow and it’s like, well, is that really going to solve the problem or is there bigger issues going on?

Jenn Spantak (Guest) You know, what’s your attrition look like?

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) Yeah,

Jenn Spantak (Guest) You know,

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) sure.

Jenn Spantak (Guest) we can put together a campaign that maybe is going to solve the short to the short term, but what’s the long term plan? Let’s work together on that. And so again, I think that goes back to my natural curiosity of like what’s the deeper issue? What’s the deeper cause? What’s really going on? Like I like to be at the table. I need to be at the table in order to be successful because you come to me at the last minute. I’m going to ask you 47,000 questions and you’re going to get annoyed with me. I’ll be honest with you. Um, but I think that’s what makes me a better communicator, a better marketer. And I just think as a leader, maybe not even just as a marketer or communications person, but just as a business leader, like recognizing that is so important. and bringing the right people to the table early in the process, you’re going to get better results and you’re going to have a better just longevity of what you’re trying to do.

Jenn Spantak (Guest) And I’m not saying there’s not going to always, you know, I understand there’s short-term things that need to happen. They’re short-term things. things that need to be addressed. But are we really, you know, do we need to look at the long-term implications of

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) I can tell you’re a communications person, too. Those two stories you shared,

Jenn Spantak (Guest) Thanks.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts) the one about the engineers making a great product but not maybe having the perspective of putting it into practice and the manufacturing piece and people building it and then uh the other story you shared about just going and seeing how the sausage is made. Those experiences are so integral to our communication as we overlap different roles and different organizations within a business and so yeah, go get your hands dirty. Go figure out what it’s like in a different department, what they do, and how they’re, you know, the problems that they solve actually might be able to be solved with what you’re doing, too. So, I love everything you shared today and for everyone, please check out Jen’s LinkedIn and we will  link to her LinkedIn and any other resources that she has to share and stay tuned for next time. Thanks so much, Jen, for your time today. Yeah, thank you,

Jenn Spantak (Guest) Thank you