Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Hello everyone. This is an episode I’ve personally been looking forward to for quite some time. I know you’ve been to Culture Con and you’ve heard incredible people’s first strategies for driving your business forward. Well, today we’re flipping the script. We’re here to talk about the worst company culture advice and why it’s so bad with co-founder of Culture Con, Zack Blumenfield. So, thanks, Zach, for joining us today.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Thanks for having me. Pumped to be here.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): We’re really excited, too. And as you can already probably tell, Zach is a great guy and has so much to offer our listeners today. So, we’re going to hear a little bit about him. So, Zach Blumenfeld (Guest) is a seasoned entrepreneur with a proven track record of launching and exiting multiple businesses, gaining invaluable experience along the way. Passionate about growing businesses, Zach’s expertise lies in growth, sales strategy, innovation, and workplace culture. Zach has scaled companies across various industries with particular expertise and company culture.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Pet pet insurance, insure techch, fintech, SAS, and HR techch. Wow, that is a lot. His motto, make what you do matter, speaks volumes about how he leads his life and his commitment to improving the lives of others. These qualities influenced the start of Culture Con, a movement dedicated to enhancing workplace culture. And outside of work, Zach is passionate about work, travel, sports, go badgers, collecting sports cards, and lunch buffets. You might also spot him as an extra on your favorite TV show or movie. Oh, wow. Holy cow. You’re like I’m amazed that you’ve like really dialed in on one thing because you’re obviously so talented in many different
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Thank you. Yeah, it’s always weird hearing someone read your bio.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): directions.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): I’m like, “Oh, yeah, I did do that.” But uh yeah, culture is my passion, my focus, and I’m very fortunate to be in a position where I can just talk about it all day and be around people who are doing the most amazing things.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): So, uh yeah, it’s an amazing spot to be
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Well,
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): in.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): We feel like you’re in the right place to talk to us about culture. We’re passionate about it as well.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Definitely.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): I did want to ask, so do you have a role from one of those TV shows or movies that you’d like to share? I’m curious about that, too. Even if it’s an extra, I’d love to hear where we can spot
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Yeah.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): you.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Um, there’s so much like a lot of shows filmed in Chicago now. So there’s like the whole NBC,
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Right.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): uh, like Chicago Med, Chicago Fire. So I’ve been like a doctor, a firefighter, a cop on Chicago PD. But my favorite role, I was actually a standin. So slightly different than an actor. They find someone who is like the same skin tone and height as the actual actor and then you stand there while they get all the lights ready and then they’re like, “Okay, you’re done. Get out of here.” And then the actor uh subs in for you.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Oh,
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): So, you don’t get any screen time with that. Uh but it’s you’re like really close to the production and the actual actor. Uh, and there’s a show on uh Hulu or FX called The Bear, which follows uh Car Me and this Italian beef shop and a restaurant in Chicago here. Um, and so I was able to stand in for the character who plays the cousin who actually won, I think, an Emmy or some kind of award for his role there. Um, because I’m the same height and like pretty close skin match.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Whoa.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): So, uh, it was cool working with him and the crew and that was a really fun show and I love food. I’m a big foodie and I love the Chicago food scene. I think it’s one of the best in the world. So,
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Appreciate it.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): being able to like mix all my passions together in one was a really cool
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Wow, that is so cool.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): experience.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): It sounds like you ended up in the right place.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): And that makes me want to go to Chicago. We’re We’re definitely
foodies as well, at least in our We are in a smaller town,
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Definitely
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): but there are a few good places here. So,
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): amazing.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): so, you know, you’ve done all these different things, Zach. Uh, what led you to start Culture Con?
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Yeah. Yeah. Well, as you can tell from my bio, I’m a serial entrepreneur, so I’ve always had that uh that bug in me. My mom jokes around that I had the most successful lemonade stand on Long Metal Road growing up. And so, that’s kind of where I got my entrepreneur spirit from, I guess.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): What’s
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Um but yeah, about a little over a decade ago now, I started uh co-founded a software company called Third Space, which was a cloud-based software that helped a couple different things,
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): the
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): but all focused around workplace culture, employee engagement, and I got really passionate about that. I think early in my career I was very fortunate to have an amazing boss and leader and mentor who just like set the example and I right out of school I had this amazing job amazing culture like it was just like everything I wanted and needed needed from a company and then after that I went to another company and kind of saw the flip side of like oh this isn’t how it should work every time or how it works in the real world
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): every time. So I got to see good and bad cultures right off the bat pretty early.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Okay.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): So when I connected with a couple friends in Madison and we started this uh software company um I was already really passionate about like I I’ve experienced a good culture like why can’t every culture be like this and so if I could create a tool that could help people um get to that culture that people want and need to be successful like let let’s try it out. So we started even before we had software with these executive rounds and we just kind of pressure tested ideas we were working on and trying to figure out where these executives were struggling with their culture and what kind of unique organizational culture challenges they had. Um so we had set up these sessions usually like an hour in the morning around breakfast and they would always run late. Sometimes they would go hours over because people would just get so passionate. It was like therapy and talking about the good, the bad, sometimes the ugly parts of their culture.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): And there was this community aspect too where people would like to share ideas and be like, “Oh, I have that same challenge. Here’s what I did to help and kind of fix that.” And um so it’s cool that people were kind of like making connections and that got me really excited, too. And so I was like maybe we could take these to the next level and do workshops or maybe half day events because software is great but for culture being such a humanistic challenge like software isn’t going to solve it all together. There needs to be kind of a community and human aspect to that. So um I actually got connected with my now co-founder best friend Nick Lamberino. We grabbed coffee at a coffee shop called Collectivo right on the Capitol Square in Madison, Wisconsin. I pitched him the idea. He was like the first person I talked to about it. He’s like, “Yeah, seems like he did the market research. Let’s uh, let’s try this out.” So, um,
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): You,
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): back then we had, we just went with it.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Yeah. Uh, back then we had no event planning experience.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): huh?
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): So, um, apologies to the first couple attendees who went to those events, but we’ve kind of learned over the years. And uh so our first event was we scheduled it on Valentine’s Day in the middle of a blizzard which we couldn’t plan for uh but there was a blizzard and we we were like let’s get 50 people in the room and if we can get 50 people there we’ll move forward with like a larger event. So it’s kind of like a lean startup model. Let’s try something out.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Now,
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Um and so we actually ended up getting over a hundred people there. Sold it out and it was uh pretty much all local Madison kind of Wisconsin people. Uh so we moved forward with our first ever culture con kind of like an annual conference uh June of 2018 and then have been growing ever since then. The pandemic was a little scary with not being able to have in-person events but the silver lining was we were able to grow virtually a lot faster and quicker.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): So when we got back in person um in 2022 it just kind of was at a different level and a lot more people from all over the world were coming to Madison. And since then we’ve grown. We have multiple events. Um we have different topics we cover, not just cultures. So we had our first ever AI summit. We have our own podcast, consulting, online learning center certifications. So yeah, it’s been a wild roller coaster ride, but it’s been one of the best ones I’ve ever been
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): That is amazing.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): on.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): And and props to you. And event planning. I’ve done that sort of thing and it’s not easy.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Yeah.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): And so I’m sure those first people they they gave you the benefit of the doubt
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Mhm.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): like they didn’t cause the blizzard.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Yep. Yep.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): It sounds like you really home anyway because of you know having
the quality there with so many people that wanted
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Definitely.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): to come and be able to navigate the pandemic. That’s amazing. And I’ve heard of Culture Con for a lot of years. And so, you know, you’re clearly one of the best, biggest, most well-known culture conferences at this point. And incredible speakers, incredible experience. And yeah, if anybody listening hasn’t gone, you definitely need to check it out. So,
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Thank you. Yeah, there’s also just like the most amazing attendees there, too. Like we just lucked out with the caliber of human who shows up to these events.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): so
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Like speakers are great, our sponsors are incredible because they make it happen, but just like the people in the room that are there are like the nicest people and they just want to make work better for people. And it’s um yeah, be really lucked out on that front
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): yeah, I mean that’s kind of the whole point of your conference is having a positive workplace culture.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): too.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): And I can’t imagine it attracting people who didn’t care about that.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Right.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Yep.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): And so, so now let’s get into the main topic for today.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Yep.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Zach, you’ve obviously spoken with and interacted with some of the best people leaders around the globe. But along the way, I’m sure you’ve heard some bad advice, too. So, tell us some of the worst company culture advice you’ve heard and why it was so bad.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Yeah, there’s a couple that popped in my mind when I was thinking about this. Um, I think I’ll start with the most cliche one, which is I guess very cliche at this point, but like the pingpong table and pizza parties are going to help create culture, create the culture that people want and need to succeed. And I obviously think we all know by now that’s one of the biggest misconceptions. But I just wanted to start there so we could set the playing field. Um, but like I’ve worked with some companies with amazing snack selections like Cold Brew on Tap and Way more than Ping Pong Tables.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Like I toured a company once and I’m not joking. I sat in a nap room that had this like $10,000 massage room and I was surrounded by an aquarium and it’s so cool. But like one, I don’t think you should be napping at work. I don’t know how that’s going to really help influence my culture except like let me sleep well and feel good, I guess. Uh but yeah, the the ping pong tables, the the other perks, um I think they can help support a culture, but they’re not going to create
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah,
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): one.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): that I totally agree and especially when a lot of those things are, you know, spent resources on things that people wouldn’t choose for themselves. I mean, you can’t cater to every single preference that every single employee has, but understanding some of the needs that people have or things that people get higher utility from, those are clearly going to have more value. I mean, there’s uh value per dollar, I guess you could say, or um that people place on different things.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Right.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): And yeah, napping pods probably wouldn’t be top of the list for most people and and different
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Yeah.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): companies attract different people and then within that people like they I feel like they have a tendency to have similar likes and dislikes and you can definitely see that from your surveying. I’m curious though. So when you went from your amazing culture at the software company to then the next company that you were like whoa, what were maybe the top three things that you were like this is not
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Yeah, that’s a good question.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): okay?
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Um, I think one thing I really noticed was before I left the first company with the great culture, we also had a change in leadership. So when that first leader left, it was just like night and day. So I know that that was like the missing piece was like having that leader because I think um so one it was leadership and two I think there’s just like a couple traits I noticed when I think back about that leader.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): It was um there was like a coaching mentoring aspect to it where it wasn’t just like top down command approach. It was like hey here’s what I think or here’s a challenge let’s all work on it together or when I would come to him with a challenge I would get coached on how to go about it not just like tell them this or sell them this kind of thing. So it was very like the mentorship approach to that. I think also um with the communication style everything was very clear. So there were clear expectations of me from my team of the company like where we needed to go and be. Um so communication was very vital and a great communicator and then I think I just felt like this sense of trust and connection which I think all humans want and crave and that’s like I think the core a lot foundation of a lot of really good cultures is like people trust each other they can communicate they feel connection and there’s also this like shared sense
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): of heat.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): of purpose and you feel like you’re attached to a mission and actually making a difference there’s a clear vision where you can go. So, I mean, I think it’s a lot of things that might seem like common sense to someone, but there’s so many companies and so many leaders that don’t do that. And I I don’t think any leader wakes up and like, I want to make sure my team has a really bad day today. Like, they’re just not trained or they don’t know what they don’t know. And so, um, and I think a lot of that actually breaks down at like the mid-manager level. Um, so I think that’s where I see a lot of like focus now is like how do we train up our mid managers because they’re kind of like the soldiers uh who are helping to carry out culture especially when it’s coming down from leadership. So um it’s kind of a tangent but I think like a lot of those different pieces help make up a really good
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): culture.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): And I love I love how you phrase that because in my mind I was thinking tell me about all these toxic things, but really you’re just saying they’re having a lack of these companies that don’t have great culture, they’re having that lack of purpose in their communication and in their mentorship and in their leadership.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Right.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): And so that’s what you guys train on is just helping companies get that purposeful aspect in all that they do.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Yeah. Yeah,
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): So and one thing that I would add to this because I’ve done
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): definitely.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): my fair share of employee engagement surveys over the years and focus groups and exit interviews and that sort of thing. One thing that I’ve seen is huge is individual care. And I think that kind of ties into trust. But just caring about the person not just the job to be done and when that is felt um on the team member’s side it makes a huge difference in just someone’s life honestly I mean thinking like speaking humanly but also to help unlock that measure of discretionary effort that people can contribute to a business but may not be obliged to contractually by their job description.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): So helping people feel like they’re invested and just like you experienced from that amazing manager that was helping you solve problems instead of just telling you what to do. But yeah, I think that’s amazing. I’m curious what other um bad advice you’ve heard beyond kind of the cliche ping pong table uh pizza party stuff if there’s anything like really Oh, that’s interesting.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Yeah, I know I think one thing and it was almost a misconception I had when we first started Culture Con. Like I thought Culture Con was going to be an HR conference. And don’t get me wrong, like HR is still a big part of our um community and culture and people and workplace experience type titles. But I think I was under the conception and a lot of people are that culture is kind of under HR. or it’s HR’s job. But I don’t think that’s 100% true. I think HR can help play a role and facilitate culture, but uh culture exists in a company whether you have HR or not.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Like there’s a lot of small companies that aren’t big enough to have an HR person or HR department. Um, and so they’re still going to have a culture and you know, I think HR, like I said, can help facilitate it, but it’s really up to the leaders of that organization, um, to help create and drive that culture. And honestly, like everyone contributes to culture. It’s the way we treat people. It’s the way we handle conflict. It’s the way feedback is given. Like all of that is culture. So yes, HR is going to play a huge role in that, but it’s not owned by HR and culture is kind of owned by everyone in an
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah, that makes sense and I agree with that.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): organization.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah, I think that is actually an important point to make is the stewardship of of who owns that and like you said HR they can create initiatives they can administer the surveys but I I do believe the leaders have a greatest probably the greatest influence on how that culture is spread and because like you said they’re mentoring they’re teaching their their team members on how to continue that and treat their team members and so forth and So that those examples and then h having that tied with the right
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Definitely. Yeah. And like I mentioned,
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): initiatives.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): like HR is definitely a big part of our community, but what’s really interesting is like all the different types of people and roles that attend Culture Con or come to a webinar, Inerson events. And you know, we have people, it may be just like a CEO of a company or a founder of a startup, but it could be VP of ops. We see marketing and branding from like an employee experience and internal comm’s perspective. We see customer service. We see ops people. So there’s a portion of our audience that may not fit your typical like HR persona but still really cares about culture. Um we also see a lot of like uh people leaders or team leads. So they may manage a department or um entire organization and they’re like the culture gatekeeper of that team or department. Um but they’re not going to have an HR title, but they do care about culture. They care about their people. So I think that adds to the the value of the conference is like you’re going to meet people from all different walks of life and roles and types of organizations and it just shows like culture isn’t owned by one single role or function in an
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): So with your conferences,
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): organization.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): do you see attendees who aren’t with HR and aren’t maybe a people leader and they’re just coming to learn about how they can be a better member of their
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Yeah. Yeah. Definitely it’s a big part of it.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): organization.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Um and it I think it is a challenge from like an event organizing perspective because you’re not uh designing an experience for one role or one function but we’re
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): We’re ready.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): rather just designing an experience that’s around a certain topic like workplace culture. So yeah, it does bring in lots of different types of people and um a lot of the topics that we can discuss are kind of role agnostic. So yeah, there might be a portion of them that may focus on HR, but a lot of them will help with leadership or just, you know, how do you break down silos and create um you know, bridges between sub or micro cultures. Um how do I start? One thing we talk about is culture from the inside out.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): So how do I start with myself and work on things that I need to work on, but then I can be a better leader or a better team member. So um yeah, culture is this nebulous word that’s so much kind of uh under that umbrella term. So there’s a lot we can talk about and a lot we do talk
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): That’s so cool.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): about.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): And I think there’s there’s a lot of people today who are quick to point fingers at the problems and and to have that flipped on the head where we’re thinking like how can I
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): That’s
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): make a better impact on this organization? How can I maybe change what toxic things exist, right? Instead of just blaming everything else.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): the
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): And where have you seen the conversation changing?
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): home.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): you know, a lot has changed even in the last few years going from precoid to postcoid. Um, how’s the employee experience conversation evolving? What what’s the next big
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Yeah. Um,
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): topic?
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): I was looking back at this a couple months ago. I was looking back at our first ever culture con. It was June Biff or something. 2018. June 2018. And the most edgy topic we had was we had this panel and it was like, is remote going to work or is remote work going to stick around? And that was like the edgy topic of the conference and it was a packed room like people were standing in the back of it. Um, and obviously that is not even a conversation. I guess it could still kind of be with return to work mandates, but um, yeah, it’s like, yeah, it worked. We did that for many years and we still do a lot of the time. Um, and now like we’re talking about psychedelics in the workplace and micro doing to help with mental health. So, the conversation has completely shifted. The pandemic changed everything. Um the world has changed so much in the last 10 years and it is just changing even faster.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Um I mean I think the big topic right now is AI obviously. I don’t. I can’t think of a bigger topic or subject that people are talking about or people need to be talking about. Um, we just had our first ever AI summit back in April and it was really interesting to just hear about all these different leaders. Um, and how they’re using AI, what they’re doing with their teams, um, and then also hear from people that their companies aren’t using AI yet. So, it was like trying to say, “Hey, you know, I’m using AI outside of work, but you know, maybe they’re in a regulated industry like the government or higher education. It’s like we just had a mandate roll out that we can’t use AI.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): There’s a freeze for six months while we figure out what we do with it. But if I wait six months, I’m going to fall so far behind.” Um, so yeah, I think AI just as a topic is um it’s something we all should be talking about.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): It’s changing everything. Um, it’s going to change the way we work or not work. Um, I like to take a positive approach and think that it’s going to hopefully affect us in a positive way and can increase humanity and connection. And I think events like Culture Con or just physical face-to-face meetings are going to become even more valuable because we’re going to need and crave that human connection even more so. Um, but it’s also going to do a lot of things that are going to replace a lot of jobs and change how companies and society is, um, structured. So, we could go down a whole rabbit hole and probably take another podcast episode if I don’t shut up.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Absolutely.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): So, I’ll pause there.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): No, absolutely. And honestly, it is a hot topic and it’s and it is a controversial one for sure. And I think we’ve spent a few of our uh other culture profit episodes kind of touching on that and how we can maintain that human connection amidst the AI and and yeah and combining the two in a beautiful way.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): That’s the hope. So, I love your positive perspective on that and um so amazing to talk to
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Yeah.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): you today and and hear how you went from lemonade stand to culture con and culture
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Thank you.
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): expert and I think it’s amazing how you can combine the expert uh voice of so many people and and then share that and improve the workplaces across the world really. So, um, thank you so much today. And I just wanted to add one last thing with the culture profit, you know, having that human connection. We talked about that a little bit today. And with our like our goal is to help people see that investing in your people is investing in your business. It helps the bottom line, but that doesn’t erase that human connection and the motivation behind being kind and being a good person and having the right motivations behind it. It’s not just all money. And I think you touched on that in a great way. So, thanks again. And to all our listeners, please connect with Zach on LinkedIn and check out Culture Con and the upcoming events and we’ll definitely link to that in our highlight article and we’ll see you next time. Yeah, thank you so much, Zach.
Zach Blumenfeld (Guest): Thanks for having me. Great to be
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): See you next time.
