Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Okay, there we go. All right, welcome everyone and thanks for joining us for today’s episode. Hiring should not feel like dating in the dark. Andrea Hoffer (Guest) of AHA Talent Experts joins us to talk about her dream hire framework, how to actually match hires to culture, and why great interviews start way before the first question is asked. So, Andrea, thanks for joining us today.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): Thank you, Matt and Christ. I’m really excited to be here. This is one of my favorite topics.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): We’re excited to have you and I’m excited to share about Andrea today. Andrea Hoffer (Guest) is an experienced talent acquisition and management strategist and entrepreneur with a passion for building exceptional teams. As the founder of AA talent experts, she has helped businesses nationwide improve recruitment processes, align hiring with company culture, and develop employer brands that attract top top talent. Drawing from over 30 years in recruitment and just under two decades as a successful business owner, Andrea understands firsthand how great hires drive long-term success. A certified AI consultant, she blends technology and human insight to streamline hiring, optimize talent acquisition, and create tailored onboarding experiences.
 
 

 
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Andrea is also a sought-after keynote speaker and the author of Hire Hire with a mission to empower companies and candidates alike. She specializes in crafting hiring strategies that not only fill positions but build cohesive, high-performing teams. Wow, so much there. So much experience. Tell us a little bit about you and just everything leading up to this. And I just have one little followup from your bio.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): Yes.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Hire is well that that’s pretty awesome. I love that first of all, but the AI-like certification piece, I’m curious about that too.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): Thank you. Sure.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah, tell us about your AI certification.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): So I became fascinated with AI when it started becoming mainstream just when some people were starting to hear about GPT chat. I kind of think at that point 80% of the people I talked to still didn’t know what chat GBT was. And when I am interested in something, I dive right in. I want to know everything.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): That’s a great quality.
 

 
Andrea Hoffer (Guest): So I signed up for an MIT certification on using AI and data analytics because it was the first course I could find that I felt like, oh, this is gonna, you know, I’m going to learn so much. And it was hard, but I don’t like a several month class. There were actual assignments. I think I worked harder in that class than I did in my MBA. At least it felt that way probably because I was a little out of my depth.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Oh, wow. Wow.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): But I did pass. Uh and since then I’ve been taking a lot of other AI certifications. I think I have four or five at this point but different kinds.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Okay.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): they’re much more practical and I use a lot of AI in what we do at the business and in what I do when I teach and train. So even just using it to help you to be more successful at hiring. I mean it is what we do at AHA and our dream hire framework that I know we’re going to talk about in a little bit.
 
 
Andrea Hoffer (Guest): It’s made it so much easier to do and to teach our clients how to do it, you know, in a way that’s accessible.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): and so much more efficient, I’m sure. You know, yeah.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): Yes. Efficient, streamlined, and just I don’t know. For me, AI helps me to be more creative. Things I’ve been wanting to do for decades that I just didn’t know how to do, you know, technology wise. You know, I’m a little obsessed. I watch, you know, I start my day every morning. I’m sharing a little secret here that I haven’t really told many people, but every morning I start my day for at least a half hour, sometimes an hour, watching YouTube videos on AI and talent acquisition.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): I’m

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): A lot of it’s on AI, but if I can find, you know, anything that relates to talent acquisition um with it, I do. And that way I stay on top of the latest, the greatest tricks go, you know, that I can Yeah.
 
 
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. A couple friends.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): the trends, what you know, every hour something new comes out. So if you want to be on top of it, you kind of have to put aside a certain amount of time.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Seriously, that’s impressive. That’s so cool. And I think I love how you said it helps you be more creative because it kind of fills in the knowledge gaps that you don’t have and allows you to use your time and energy put into the creative side of things instead of just like, how do I even do this? Yeah.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): Right. And I was even before AI, I had a lot of content. I’ve created tons of content over the years. And this has allowed me to feed it to AI, my content, not just putting it out there for whatever on the LLM. Um, but you, you know, reusing my content in certain ways that I can, you know, I can teach, I can share, I can extract it and and find ways to to use it in real life.
 
  
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): And I was actually even just working on an article earlier this morning on how to really amplify your employer brand in a way that AI is going to pick it up. You know, we’ve been so concerned about SEO for decades, right?

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yep. Yep.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): Um, and there’s, you know, there’s still something to SEO, but now there I had the latest stat. It was around 75-76% of job seekers instead of just, you know, we used to say your job seekers are researching you before they’re applying, right? before they’re even thinking about working for you and they, you know, they want to see what they can find. And so you want good reviews on glass doors and, you know, a career site, but it’s so much more than that now because they’re not going to Google anymore.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Perfect.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): They’re going to the chat GPT or maybe a Google AI project. They’re going to an AI and finding me jobs that have good work-life balance or that will give me flexibility and my schedule or that allows me to work remotely or that’s recognized for my industry.
 

 
Andrea Hoffer (Guest): And it, you know, unless you’ve put a lot of content out there in a very structured way, it’s not going to pick it up as, you know, the way you want it to. Um, so there’s a whole new way and it’s both for business, you know, both sales as well, sales and marketing, but I focus on it related to to hiring and and how to get the word out about the culture at your business in a way that’s accessible to to who you’re trying to attract. So that’s

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): That’s very powerful. Yeah. And a lot of times when people are searching, they may be searching on Gemini or chat GPT just about a specific job and it just compiles all the data about that company and what people say about it and what the positives and negatives are all in one paragraph. It’s amazing.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): Mhm.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. Yeah. That’s honestly yeah we’ve been diving more into AI as well to be more efficient and I think applying it to the hiring use case is really important.
 
  
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): So tell us a little bit more about the AHA talent experts like the background there and your dream hire framework.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): Okay. So, there’s two different stories there, but I’ll start briefly with that.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah start with the

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): Um, so I started my career working on college campuses. My original degree is something called college student personnel work. Most people have never heard of it, but essentially it’s a degree to work on college campuses helping college students to develop leadership skills and just become the best of who they are. I think it’s a great career for anyone and there’s also a lot of ways you can transition and use what you learned from that career to do other things like I did. So when I decided I wanted to go out in the business world, I won’t get into all the reasons why I went back and got my MBA and eventually invested in a massage MV spot.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Oh, wow.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): That was my first business in two we opened in July of 2006 and I had that for 10 years.
 
  
Andrea Hoffer (Guest): Um, and I won’t go into all the different stories related to that, but one of the things I kept thinking when I owned the spa was because I was having a lot of challenges with my front desk. Not as much with my therapist team, but my front desk kept turning over, turning over, turning over. Or I would have employees that were great in customer service, but terrible in sales. And the front desk needed to be great in sales.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): And I was like, and I would just be hiring, you know, have a help wanted sign and people would walk in and I’d ask them a few questions, hiring on the spot. And then one day I said, “What am I doing?” Because of my background, I was highly trained in interviewing and creating effective hiring processes. And I had gotten so caught up in the day-to-day of the business because it was all new to me, right?

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): business. Yeah.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): I mean, I had run businesses before, but not my own. And I had 33 employees, I think, at that point.
 
  
Andrea Hoffer (Guest): And so, I was like, I need to take a step back and start kind of creating processes based on what I’ve learned and even though I feel this urgency to fill spots, I need to do this right. So, I did. And I also did a lot of research on best practices at the time. And I was specifically looking for hiring around hourly employees since that was my need. Uh and it also was where I came from with the college campus. I had managed and led hourly teams for decades before. Anyway, the things that I put in place really started working to the point where other franchises were asking me about my process and I was part of different entrepreneur networks. So other businesses and business owners that I knew were asking me. Um, so I started this little consulting company. I had already started for other reasons and I started offering these you know hiring type services helping uh franchises small businesses that were growing and needed hourly employees and that’s how a talent expert was born.
 
  
Andrea Hoffer (Guest): That’s kind of the short answer for me, even though it was still kind of long. And then to get to the dream framework, first over the years, I came up with a three-step process that I outline in my book, Higher, Higher, which is H I R E Hi, Gher. And that came out a few years ago. And then last year I was sort of kind of going. I didn’t know I was doing something with a client and I realized there’s really five stages.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Stranger scared.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): There’s lots of steps, but they’re really five stages. And a lot of what I talk about in my book falls under the stages. But something clicked in my head and I said, well, our tagline has been for years. We build dream teams. And I’m like, you know what? The five stages actually match up with the DRAM. And all of a sudden, the dream higher framework was born.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Huh?

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): And it was like such an aha, if I can say aha.
 
  
Andrea Hoffer (Guest): And since then that’s you know it’s been so much easier to teach what I know within that framework and I can go deep into a stage or or kind of high level and even high level I find is really helpful for people.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah, maybe let’s start with that high level and then we can dive into it more as Oh, go ahead. Well, I just wanted to say how cool it is that you know, you’re in this spa industry. you’re doing all these different things throughout the whole business, but you’ve got this expertise in this area and then you develop this methodology that is then obviously working and then you realize, okay, well, we can then go replicate that in other areas. I think that’s really cool. Just wanted to give you kudos for that and say re really neat and I and I’m excited to hear the dream framework. I feel like a lot of acronyms, you know, people find a word and then they like to force it to be an acronym. You know, you had your methodology first and then lined it up with Oh, man.
 

 
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): That’s Yeah. Very seamless. So, yeah.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): And Chrissy, that’s a really great point because for years every I would try to do like an acronym, right? and nothing was matching for me. So it wasn’t until it sort of formed itself that I um so okay so D um D is define and I you know I feel it is the most important

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah, that means it’s good. So, take us through it. Yeah.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): piece and it sounds so simple right it’s it’s all about clarifying not only clarifying your company culture because a lot of people will do that a A lot of businesses will have it all, you know, a beautiful sign,

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): I feel

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): but it’s more about what are the behaviors that show up that really match up to what that culture is, what those core values are. And we don’t just talk about culture here. When we’re defining if there are particular roles that you need filled or roles in your company, you’re also defining what are the success traits.
 
  
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Open up.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): How do you know what type of traits or how people show up for that particular role? So you’re looking at the company as a whole, the culture and the role because you I have seen over and over again where people hire great cultural fits, right? And then they can’t do the job or maybe they can do the job but it’s not really what they wanted to do. So, it’s also, you know, is this what they want to do or have they done it in the past and they’re really looking to do something different?

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): question.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): And I’ve seen the opposite, too, where they hire people who are great in the job, perfect fit for the job, but not fit for the culture. So, it’s very important to find both. And sometimes when you do find the great cultural fit, and you might realize, hey, they’re not the right fit for that role. if you can find the right role for them within your company. I wouldn’t Yeah.
 
  
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Right. A culture fit. So okay.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): Yeah. Um so you’re you’re you know you did define now it’s all the reach. How are you going to reach the people that you’ve now defined who you need? Um and you know we always start with the job posting here. Um, and not that the job posting is the end all, right? I like it because it gives us almost like a roadmap. So, we we typically in the define stage, we we do um it’s usually about a 90 minute deep dive discovery session with our client and we record it and transcribe it and now with AI we can slice and

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): message.
Andrea Hoffer (Guest): dice it and do a lot with it. It used to take us several hours a day for several days to get it to what we want.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Hello Yeah.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): But we’ve always had a specific formula that we use for job postings. And so we take the information from the definition and put it into that formula, that format, so that it’s answering all the questions that the candidates are looking for.
 
  
Andrea Hoffer (Guest): But it also becomes almost our answer key for when you’re doing interviewing too.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Perfect.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): You know, um years ago when I was working on college campus, I had this supervisor who did a lot of training with us on hiring and she used to say before we even start a search, I’ve learned a lot from her. You know, before we even start a search, we need to kind of create this persona of who we’re looking for. And every time we’re evaluating the candidates, we’re not evaluating them against each other. We’re evaluating them against that persona. So, I always, you know, tell my team and the clients we work with, okay, you’re telling me all these things that, you know, why you want this person.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): I propose

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): Well, let’s go back and read the job posting because this is what you said you wanted. You know, do you know, does it fit? Are we describing this person here? And if not, that’s okay. If you’ve, you know, you have additional information now that maybe you need something a little different, but you need to go into this with open eyes, you know, of that that’s why you made the change.
 

 
Andrea Hoffer (Guest): So now you’re creating the messaging and that’s where the job board, you know, the job ads start and then you’re creating your employer brand, getting your culture out there. You know, what does it look like? What is a day in life? People say that all the time, but they don’t really put that information out there. Pictures, videos, even if you’re remote, as much as possible, tell them what it is like.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Done.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): uh so that even if somebody isn’t, you know, didn’t yet apply for the job like we were talking about earlier, but look you up, they can find information of what it’s all about. And then you go to engage and engage in a lot of things. This is your candidate experience. This is the experience for potential candidates. Are you nurturing them? People who have shown interest in the past. Did you capture their information um so that you’re nurturing them, continuing to tell them about your culture, maybe sending them job tips?
 
  
Andrea Hoffer (Guest): And how are you engaging the candidates currently in the pipeline, currently applying for your jobs?

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): That’s Mhm.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): Are you sitting there, you know, are they sitting there wondering if they’re ever going to hear from you again? Uh, you know, how long are you making that process? And are you communicating with them? We have a um I guess you call it a policy or a promise where we will engage with candidates currently in the process at least every three days. We really try to do it every 24 hours from the last minute. Um, but if we’re waiting on a hiring manager, maybe a hiring manager is on vacation or they’re very involved in a project or something has happened and there isn’t funding for a job. That has happened to us many times.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): We let the candidate know that there’s some sort of hold up, but that, you know, that the employer is still really interested.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Fore

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): And we always ask them, has anything changed on your end, so that we know, you know, maybe they found another job, but they kind of like this job better.
 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): You know, we want to know what’s going on in their head. And you know, it always makes me feel good. And we’ve had this happen a lot over the years where a candidate will will write somebody on my team or myself just a note saying even when they didn’t get the job, we actually had this last year where,

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): speech.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): you know, one was like, I just want you to know this has been one of the best experiences. You know, even though this wasn’t the right job, you know, I really felt like you were in this with me.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): That’s awesome.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): And the truth is it doesn’t take a lot now. There’s so much automation you can set up and AI. I’m not saying to just leave the automation and AI and step away. You know, you still have to do some of these things that you can’t automate. You have to be, you know, be with them.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah, the personal side of it, but it can carry the brunt of it.
 

 
Andrea Hoffer (Guest): Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So, uh, engagement is really important. I think a lot of employers sometimes forget about that part. And then we have access and this is where you’re screening candidates. Often we talk about interviews under you know assess but you know what are the different ways you’re determining that this person is the right fit for your culture and your role and are you giving them an opportunity to assess you and how are you coming across? And I know we’re going to talk a little bit about the best way to ask interview questions. So I won’t dig into that right now.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): We’ll get to Not in a minute.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): And we’ll just, you know, finish up with M, which I had always done separately. This was one of the things that I didn’t really talk about in my book, and that’s motivating. You know, because we lose candidates often. it just because they accepted an offer, you can’t then forget about them, right? You still need to engage.
 
  
Andrea Hoffer (Guest): And that’s why my dream hire framework is a circle because you’re really just you’re kind of always redefining, making sure you’re on track.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Okay.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): Uh but that motivation is constant. They could be with you for three years and their motivations have changed. The things that they want are different.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): you can’t just assume that they’re still inspired. Um, so, you know, that part is so important from the day they really start to engage with you on any level, but I think where we fall off a lot is when they accept the offer, you know, what happens then? Maybe they’re not starting for two weeks because they’re giving two weeks or even two months. Well, don’t leave, you know, don’t wait two months to communicate with them again. And don’t just think boarding is about, you know, all the paperwork and the compliance. You know, send them a note of how excited you are that they’re starting. Introduce them to the people they’re going to be working with.
 
 
Andrea Hoffer (Guest): Even if it’s just through email, ask them if you can give their email out to the rest of the team and encourage the team to to start reaching out and saying, you know, saying hello to them. And please make sure you really prepare them for that first day. I make them feel welcome. They shouldn’t have to worry about where they park if it’s on site. They shouldn’t have to worry about if they’re allowed to leave for lunch or where the best lunch places are. Really, you want to take them out for the first day if it’s in person.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): No. What about this?

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): Um, you know, we used to say when we were in office all the time, you know, make sure that there’s a name tag on their office or on their desk, wherever you normally have a name tag. Don’t have them walk into an office that is blank when everybody else has their name on it. Make, you know, really make them feel like you’ve been preparing for them.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yep.
 

 
Andrea Hoffer (Guest): Um, and then you know, keep that keep that inspiration going. Do constant check-ins. There’s so much I can say, but I know we’re

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah, definitely. No, I think you’re exactly right. having just having clear expectations when when they’re hired is so so big so they’re not wondering and it’s kind of like when you get an invitation and you’re like how am I supposed to dress for this you know and and then you show up in the wrong type of you’re casual and it’s a nice dress or something. It’s like that and they want to just have clear expectations and just know what is expected when they get to their job and yeah make them feel welcome and comfortable. Um, so I just want to go hit those one more time. So define, reach, engage, and I almost thought employer branding was in there because that’s an E2, but engage, and then A was assessed, and that we’re going to get into that one. And then motivate myself.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): Correct.
 
  
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): So good. That really does fit perfectly with the methodology that you’re talking about. And, um, I just wanted to mention, and I hope I’m not spoiling anything. I could take this out if I am, but um you mentioned last time we talked Andrea about your job post roast and so stay tuned. Make sure you’re following her because they her team they’re putting something together and you can put your own job post out there and let her roast it and fix it.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): Yeah, actually I am so glad that you mentioned it because we have three spots left.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): So Oh, that’s awesome.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): We did, we are launching next week, uh is when I’m going to start roasting. And let me clarify, roast, we use the word because some people are like, well, are you going to really tear us apart? I’m like, I’m a pretty nice person.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. Yeah. Not like you’re putting it on the stage to be looked at and to be provided feedback.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): Yeah.
 
 
Andrea Hoffer (Guest): Yeah.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): I love it.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): Right. Exactly. So, if you want to participate, um, please you can email me. I can give you your notes there. I don’t know when this is actually airing because we’re doing this next week, but if people like it, I can do it again. Um but part of what if they participate, you know, they’ll see the video of where I’m walking through and um roasting their job posting and how to improve it. But then we will also send them a polished job post. We’ll send to them directly that they can use and if they want we will then share it on um our network of we you know our social media has over 15,000 uh followers through the different platforms especially LinkedIn um so it will be a good way for them to attract the right person that they’re looking for

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Well, we’ll definitely see if we can send a couple your way for that job post roast. Um, this episode may be posted after that, but people should still check it out because I’m sure they can learn so much from the ones that get the roasting some examples and yeah, and be able to apply that to their own job posts.
 
  
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): And so, okay, now let’s take a minute and dive into your dream assessment. You have a 90minute dream assessment. Tell us a little bit about that and the purpose they define.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): Okay. So that’s actually that’s a discovery session and that falls under definition.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Okay.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): Yeah.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Right.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): So that’s a foundation but it does everything builds on top of that.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Not a Yes.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): We can’t really do any of the other stages if we haven’t defined ourselves well. And so in during the define um discovery session, I don’t know if it’s confusing that I use two D’s in there, but um you know I already mentioned we ask a lot of questions about culture, but we focus it on stories. So, I love stories and I found that I get the best information from people if I ask them to form it into some kind of exact story.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): That’s crazy.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): So, for example, maybe there’s a role they’ve been trying to fill and they’ve had somebody in the past who was great in that role or maybe just a similar role.
 
  
Andrea Hoffer (Guest): So, I’ll say, “Well, tell me about that person who, you know, really kicked it out of the park. What did they do?” And I’ll say, “And don’t talk to me broadly. I want you to think of a specific time.” And this is the same way I interview, by the way, a specific time, a specific example, and walk me through that story. What was the challenge? How did they, you know, how did they show up? What did they do? And you’d be amazed at how much we can then extract out of that story about who they’re right.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Finding the ideal person.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): And then we’ll turn it around. Now, I want to think about somebody who hopefully is no longer on your team, but someone who you know did not kick you out of the park.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): a little bit.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): You knew pretty early on they were not the right thing.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): And we do this both for culture and role since it can be very different for each.
 
  
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Uhhuh.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): you know, it might end up being the same, but there’ll be some crossover, but you do want to separate it because different things come out and you know, sometimes they’ll start off being like, well, it’s the opposite of

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Uhhuh.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): what I just said. Well, okay, but tell me a specific example. So, the more you know, and sometimes people will get frustrated because these are busy CEOs. We are often doing this um because we normally will work with um you know mediumsized companies that are growing often that you know have a large team but we as much as possible we do ask them to bring their team to the discovery session especially the hiring managers but anything we can pull out of the CEO is gold you know so um so we just go through different questions like that and then we will start asking

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Ask questions.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): questions about, okay, the person has been with you for 30 days and you know you made the right choice. They are, you know, you’re about to do a 30-day check-in with them and tell them that they, you know, you’re so happy they’re on the team because now what are the things they’ve accomplished in those 30 days, but that you’ll now give them excellent feedback.
 
  
Andrea Hoffer (Guest): I mean hopefully they’ve been giving fe excellent feedback all along but you know and then we’ll do the same for 60 days and 90 days and we take that information and they become the outcomes that go into the

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): A lot of

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): job posting because I think one of you said this early on people want to know what the expectations are not just a daily expectations you smile each day or whatever but what do they need to achieve it doesn’t matter what job it is, but what do they need to achieve to know that they’re doing amazing in this job and then you know what other opportunities are there for them. So we’re also going to talk about that in this session. what you know what can they grow into if they want some might be a you know a job for a few years while they’re in school but that doesn’t mean that they don’t want to learn something different that will prepare them for their next role I always will ask team members you know yes this is your role but is there something outside your role that you really want to learn you know and that you want to
 
 
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yes. Mhm.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): get good at it could be something that helps you with your role or could not be. Um, we’ll find a way if it fits in with the business, but with that we can give you experience with that. And that, you know, that leads to fire as well as motivation.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): It really benefits both sides to have the clear expectations in writing and and and then those same expectations on your job post though matching those in your interview and then matching And then it needs to match it when they’re hired. You know, it needs to be consistent across. And we want to dive into that interviewing spot. I know you mentioned how in your dream assessment, the more specific you can get and take through a scenario, that’s kind of a strategy you use for your interviews. Can you give us a few more uh just tips on structuring interview questions to make sure you get the right person?

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): Yes.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yes.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): Okay.
 
  
Andrea Hoffer (Guest): So, I’m gonna actually walk you through the template we use for interviews.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Perfect.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): And sometimes I get push back on this. I do especially um over the years I have gotten some push back from um a HR people because it’s it’s it sounds a little bit similar to how you may have interviewed but it’s slightly different and it’s uncomfortable for some people. The first thing we do is we start just about every question and this also can be uncomfortable sometimes starting each question the same with could you share? Now there’s a reason for that. You might remember traditional interview questions are very directional. Um they will say uh tell me this or give me this and it subtly sort of gives you know it gets the defenses of the candidate.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Take just the tone. Yeah.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): Um, I remember years ago, you know, people would boast about doing interviews and making the candidate really suffer, like being really tough. No, you’re not going to get to know them, especially now, because they can, you know, make, you know, make up answers and practice what they’re going to do.
 

 
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): But they’re gonna get to know you as the interviewer that they don’t want to work there, right?

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): And exactly, because it’s a perfect point.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): So um so we always share with could you share because it it sounds very conversational and it makes them feel like they have a choice of what they you know we have had people say no very rarely but

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. Yeah.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): you know it it just it it kind of brings down and it helps you to also u get in the framework of a conversation and to help them feel more comfortable.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): It’s a welcome song.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): So we do um could you share and now here’s where the example comes in and these are the power this is the power phrase a specific example and on all the interview guides we do anytime we write interview questions we put specific examples in capital letters because I can’t tell you how and we’ll still do that and we’ll I’ll be doing a training with a client and we might be doing a role play or thing um
 
 
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): this. Yeah.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): and they’ll skip over a specific example. Could you share an example or what, you know, could you share whatever? And I’m like, no, no, no. I want you to emphasize specific examples because we want the candidate to hear that so that they share it. But the other reason is if you really make it clear, I want to hear a specific example. And then they talk very hypothetically, broadly, you’re learning a couple of things. One, they might not have a specific example. So they may not have actually experienced what they’re saying they can do, and we’ll get into that in a minute, what those examples are. Um, or two, they’re terrible listeners.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): What is the question?

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): So what I usually do is say, you know, I’ll ask a question. I’ll really emphasize specific examples. And if they kind of talk broadly, I’ll say, you know, thank you um for that. Could you share a specific example? And if they still don’t, then I just move on.
 
  
Andrea Hoffer (Guest): And I know that, you know, isn’t and I’ll continue.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. Yeah.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): the other questions will be asking for specific examples too. And if you know it’s all about patterns. If they also are not sharing specific examples later, then they’re probably not the right fit.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): And I’ll even end early. But I usually say you’re looking for like 80 80 85% because nobody’s going to be perfect.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): If they’re 100% then be a red flag.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. Nervous or whatever.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): Um, so the specific example that you’re asking is something that this candidate would encounter in this role and you know in your company, you know, a very easy one I’d usually share is could you share a specific example you know because we do customer service a lot. Could you share a specific example of a time you had a difficult uh customer? Now, you’ll notice what I didn’t say was, you know, and how did you, you know, handle it?
 
 
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Handle it.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): How did you make what somebody’s always asking like, um, tell me about a time that you made a customer experience so incredible. I forget the exact words they use, but I’m like, you’re just telling them exactly how you want them to answer.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): everyone can figure out a great customer experience, you know, even if most of the time they offer horrible customer experience.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Right. Yeah.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): So if you say um and this is where I got push back with HR people because HR people usually have really good hearts, right? It’s a really hard industry and they want people to feel good. Maybe and I’m probably generalizing. I’m just saying what I’ve seen when I’ve gone to HR conferences, people are really nice. So, yeah, it’s it’s you know, it’s so different, but um it’s you want to see how they actually showed up in a challenge.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah, there they are.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): So if you ask them for a specific example of a time when a difficult um candidate, sorry client or customer, the first thing that comes to mind will probably be somebody who gave them a really hard time.
 
 
Andrea Hoffer (Guest): And you have to really listen about what happened there.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Thanks.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): Um I usually will teach the car method.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Okay. Foreign

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): It’s um context, action, and results. took me a minute to remember. So, the context is just, you know, you want to really learn as much about the situation as possible. So, if sometimes people aren’t going to walk you through in as much detail as you need. Um, so you kind of have to coach them, but without giving things away. So, you might want to say, um, you know, just kind of walk me through what led up to this situation. How did you become aware of it? When do you know when you became involved? Um and then a lot of often candidates because we’re taught to talk in te in team language right of we did this or we did that and it doesn’t matter what the situation is.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Mhm.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): I’d usually have to give them permission to use I um because they’ll say we resolved it and we did this this and this and I’ll say you know that’s great and I’ll say you know this is an interview
 
  
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): What did you do?

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): and I just want to give you permission from now on to talk specifically about your actions. Um, so can you walk me through again and just tell me exactly what you and what your actions were?

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Mhm. Amen.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): Um, and then you know you get much more information. I think often when we’re doing an interview and the candidates really know what to say. They probably observed sometimes the right actions in certain situations, but that doesn’t mean they were the ones who stepped up. Um, so you want to really dig in and learn what their actions were. Did they call their supervisor and did their supervisor actually resolve it? Um, so is this somebody who could be resourceful? You know, is this someone who is just going to pass the buck? So you kind of get the idea. And the other thing is they can’t learn that on the internet.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Huh?

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): The more details, you know, it would be very difficult for them to to lie or um to expand the details.
 
  
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Tell me.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): They didn’t actually live it.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): You kind want to see them living, you know, living through it.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. Those are like very subtle hints and strategies that really get the genuine person out in the interview. I: You are skilled. You know your stuff, Andrea. Yeah, I’m very impressed. Like this has been, I’ve done hiring in a couple different capacities and this was so insightful for me personally.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): I appreciate it.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): I think the dream framework flows very nicely. It’s very intuitive and I see the depth behind those differences. Yeah. those different five steps and some of these expert tips that you’ve shared about could you share and a specific example you totally did that. So you you are practicing what you preach here and you know we would love for our listeners to be able to continue you know learning from you from you and we’ll make sure that um your LinkedIn is connected on uh the highlight article and the post so that people can come connect with you Andrea and check out the job post real it’s going to be cool I’m gonna be watching for it too so but as we kind of wrap up any final um comments as we close here.
 
 
Andrea Hoffer (Guest): I’d usually like to just say start with one thing because I, you know, I’ve had clients say to me or prospective clients even, I don’t even know where to start. This is overwhelming. I don’t know what to do. And I’m like, well, let’s just figure out what is going to make the best ROI for you. What’s going to move the buck the most? And let’s start there.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): That’s

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): This is not really difficult stuff. It’s if you just pick one thing and focus on it, you can implement it and it will be amazing the results that you see.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): It is very organized though. I love it. And Andrea, thank you so much for your time today. All of your insights and tips were spot on. So everybody check out her LinkedIn and follow her and uh tune in for our next episode. Yeah. Thank you, Andrea. I appreciate it.

 

Andrea Hoffer (Guest): Thank you. This has been fun.