Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Welcome everyone. Thanks for joining us in today’s episode of The Culture Profit. We’re joined by a Louisiana based business advisor. Oh, I’m already messing up here. I have to make sure I say your last name right. I didn’t Prej.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): pressure. Yes,

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Prejan. So, Carrie Prejan. Okay. I don’t like butchering people’s names. I like to get it right. So, I realized I didn’t uh didn’t double check that. Okay. Prejan.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): That’s cool.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Here we go. Welcome everyone and thanks for joining us in today’s episode of the culture profit.

 
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): We’re joined by Louisiana based business advisor Carrie Prejan to explore what drives company culture and the critical function of effective communication. So Carrie, thanks for joining us today.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Oh, listen. Absolute pleasure to be here with you and Chris and Matt. Thanks for having me.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): The pleasure is all ours. Thanks Carrie and um as usual I get to share your bio. So, Carrie Prejan is the founder and CEO of Strategic Business Advisors with four decades of experience helping over 400 small to midsized businesses systemize operations and double net income within 9 to 12 months. A CPA with a degree in accounting, Carrie provides real time KPI dashboards and monthly reports to simplify financial management. He is a certified ontological coach, a predictive index partner, and has taught at four Louisiana universities. Carrie also speaks publicly, has authored three books, and works with clients across the US and industries ranging from e-commerce to healthcare. Carrie is also a cyclist, baker, and married with four kids and six grandkids. That’s awesome.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): makes
 
  
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): So,

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): me sound

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): I want

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): old.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. Very impressive. though. I I

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): He sounds really old.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): When you say cycling though, are you talking like road bikes or mountain

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Yes.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): bikes?

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Yes. Road bikes.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Okay. Okay. Nice.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): I have one of both. There’s just not many hills around here to ride.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): I

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): It’s

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): hear

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): It’s

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): you.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): pretty

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Well,

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): flat.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): we’re both we’re into both. We have done mountain biking and cycling for centuries. There’s some really good uh bike rides in Cash Valley. So, if you I don’t know if you can ever get out this way, but Yep. If you’re out here, we’ll show you some good routes.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Yeah. Okay, good. That’d be good.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): So,

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): That’d be fun.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): So tell us about anybody who’s on the video, you’ll notice behind Carrie, he’s got weapons behind him.
 
 
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): So, people are going to want to check out the video. But, can you tell us a little bit about that collection?

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Um, yeah, I love edged weapons, uh, just for the beauty of them to begin with, but also the, you know, if I have a gun, so long as I point in your direction, pull the trigger, I can hurt you. This, you got to get up close and personal. You know, the sword you can get within a couple of feet of them with a knife. You have to get to where they can hit you, too. So, if you look at it, I’m not talking about street fights. I’m talking about guys who professionally know how to fight with these hand to hand weapons, including the I don’t know if you can see them. There’s some tomahawks up there at the top.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Oh, that’s

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Those

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): okay.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): those are modeled after the 1970s tomahawks that were issued to American special forces in Vietnam because they did a lot of hand to hand close quarter combat.
 

 
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Wow.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Now that you get in a fight with those, you better know what you’re doing, right? Because you can hurt yourself just swinging it around. So yeah, I’ve always been fascinated with them. I just think they’re really pretty to look at. And yes, I have even a lot more than that wall.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): That’s impressive. Well, really cool. And you know, I think that Oh, man. I had a pun there about, you know, weapons and and words being a weapon, but I can’t remember the saying something about Maybe it’ll come to you. Yeah, I’ll see if I can remember. So, I had a question. I wanted to hear. So, you have an accounting background and four decades of experience, tons of experience. So, tell us what led to your diving into more of the culture side of things and communications and companies.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Well, because if you’re just looking at the numbers, um, you’re missing so much. You know the numbers are driven by something right?
 
  
Cary Prejean (Guest): Uh the numbers are driven by the human beings in the business and the human beings are driven by the culture in the business and the culture comes from the top down. So if you really want to affect the numbers, you want to affect at the top where it comes down and affects the people who generate the numbers. Am I making any sense?

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. Yeah.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): You know,

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Cool.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): I mean, you can be the, you know, I can be the big accounting nerd and say, “Well, your ratios are this and you’re blah blah.” And for most business owners, that means nothing. It’s just, you know, financial statements, most business owners, it’s a page of numbers. Are we doing good or are we doing bad? I don’t know. Um so you know again it took me a while to realize this but yeah when I first came out and started doing accounting I thought it was all about the numbers but then really you begin to see that what drives the numbers is the culture of the company and do you have good morale?
 
 
Cary Prejean (Guest): Do you have good camaradership? Do you have good processes or is it chaotic and everybody’s at the dead throats and all that comes I say it this way to every business owner. Your business is a direct reflection of the way you run your life. Period.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): I like that. Yeah, that’s very powerful.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): You know, so if you don’t like certain aspects of your business, remember you’re responsible for it. If you like certain aspects of your business, you’re also responsible for it. There’s a book written by and I forget his last name, Jaco. He’s an ex SEAL and it’s titled Ultimate Ownership. And then the SEALs, anything goes wrong, it’s on the mission commander. You didn’t train your people properly enough. You didn’t bring along the right gear. You didn’t get it the right intel. You missed your timing. Something went wrong. You’re responsible. You own everything.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Same thing for business owners.
 
 
Cary Prejean (Guest): If it’s in your business, either you let it get there or you created something. You put it there somehow indirectly or directly. And you’re And again, here’s the other thing that people don’t get. People treat us the way we train them to treat you.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Heat.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): So if you have employees that only take things so far, nobody’s willing to step out of the box, nobody’s willing to, you know, go beyond that. You’ve trained them. You’ve instilled that culture in your business. And it’s probably because I’ve been running around fixing everything, micromanaging people, slapping people on the hand where they don’t do it the way you would do it. I’ve seen someone do that. Look, solve the problem, boss. That’s not the way I do it. Who cares? Who cares? It’s all

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah, I think this is a unique way of looking at it. um like you know we’re we’re business owners now and and it’s been a new experience so I won’t say that I fully understand this but I am starting to get a little piece of it and that is that you know when I was an employee you know other team members they might complain about how things are or something and really the the person leading the company is in charge of those below or whatever, right?
 
  
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): That they are in charge of those that are reporting to them. Reporting. Thank you. reporting to them. And so from there, you have these leaders that they also carry all the weight and the responsibility for, right? So it’s it’s both sides where it’s like it’s hard for employees and team members to understand that sometimes they carry the weight and responsibility of everything that goes right, everything that goes wrong. But it does. It stems from that leader. And so I think that that’s huge.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Yeah. And I would make a distinction. There are some business owners who are leaders. Absolutely. There’s a lot of business owners who are more tyrants.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): They deal more with authority than they do from following my example. You

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Now, that’s one of the biggest distinctions, excuse me, about leaders is that leaders have followers, right? So, look behind you. You have any and employees do your paying that just have a paycheck.
 
 
Cary Prejean (Guest): They don’t count. You have people who are willing to be with you because they want to be with you or you have people who just have a paycheck. So, you know, so what does a leader do? a leader has some kind of a vision or a mission, something that’s generally bigger than them. You know, it’s not just about my company, my profits, my revenue, my cash, my wealth, my everything. Because that’s the way most business owners look at it. It’s my my my my. And the employees are going, “Well, okay, what’s in it for me? A paycheck. What do I have to do around here not to get fired? I’ll collect the paycheck.” So when you have an owner who talks about accomplishing something that’s bigger than them that people may want a piece of that people want to get behind now you have not only loyal employees but employees who want to do more than the minimum who want to contribute who are willing to have maybe some hard honest conversation with the owner about things that aren’t going right right because now all of a sudden it’s not about I’m the autocrat I have the power and if you cross me, you’re going to suffer.
 
 
Cary Prejean (Guest): It’s about I have this dream this way and it’s not about me and my stuff. It’s about how to accomplish this as a team. Am I making any sense?

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah, 100%.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): And and and that concept is so foreign to so many business owners because they’re very dominant. I mean, they’re very very dominant. They want their way. They don’t take no for an answer. Um they work at a fast pace. They want to change gears a lot. They hate being repetitive over and over again. And they know a lot of rules, you know, and I get to know my clients all the time. We love the results you produce and we just hate all the rules. It’s because the rules produce the results you like so much. So, you know, just go with the flow. But, uh, and listen, most business owners are really when you just talk to them, they’re wonderful people. They’re extroverts. You know, you can get to know them in 15 minutes and they’re just gregarious and friendly and engaging and all that.
 
  
Cary Prejean (Guest): And I love the people I work with. I really do. But so many of them get that they’re at the effect of the narrative that they live by that this is my stuff and it’s like they get threatened when an employee screws up. It’s like it’s going to ruin my money. It’s going to ruin my future. It’s going to ruin my name. It’s gonna and it’s not. And so instead of interacting with the employee, they react generally in a negative way. And I have this example called they vomit lava on them. And after they get all the lava lava out, they feel good. I feel better now. And the employee still sitting there covered in third degree burns because you just vomited lava on. And they’re not going to forget anytime soon. In fact,

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): they may be the next person you have looking for a way out the door.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.
 

 
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): So, how the message is sent is how it’s received, right? And so, the communication is huge. And so are your three books that you’ve authored are those a little bit about communication and leadership styles.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): The first one is yes the optimize if really optimize is is a and again people say well you know especially non- business owners yeah I read it and it’s okay I get some stuff but it’s written for business owners so if you’re not a business owner yes it’s I’m not trying to be John Gisham okay I’m writing the books I’ve written are for business owners and the first one has a lot to do with this is how business owners this entrepreneurs show up in the world it’s how they look. This is how you look, Mr. Entrepreneur or Miss Entrepreneur. This is how you look. And not only that, this is how you see the world. And they don’t always mesh. So this is how you see the world. This is how the world sees you.
 

 
Cary Prejean (Guest): There’s some inongruities here. And some of it is very humbling, right? And they don’t get that. Hey, not everybody thinks I’m a SW guy. What’s wrong with that? How did that happen? Because a lot of times you’re just reacting in a way that you didn’t ne you didn’t necessarily consciously choose, but you’re when you react and you jump all over somebody’s ass in front of somebody else yelling, screaming and cussing, you’re in a reaction mode and that’s why you feel so good a few minutes later because your reaction, okay, I went back to normal. Um, so you have to get control of that reaction thing. And a lot of that is to instead of reacting and jumping into somebody’s case is to ask questions. What happened here? What was missing? Is there a process missing? Does this employee need more training? How can I help? You know, let’s assess that damage instead of what most business owners do. Hang a few bodies and then we’ll ask questions to see what happened.
 
 
Cary Prejean (Guest): You know, let’s ask what happened and then maybe we have to hang a body. I don’t know. But let’s ask some questions first.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah, probably not the best ways to go about doing it. And you know from my experience being in the company culture space I’ve definitely seen there can be misalignments to your point between how we view ourselves and how others view us. Um there one of my favorite sayings perception is reality is

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Absolutely.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): that’s the side that we have to really start with you know just like with you know looking at an entire company we see the health of a company culture through the ENPS score then you know the net promoter score it could be really good but if our ratings and reviews on glass door and indeed are really low then your internal metrics don’t really matter that much because they’re not shaping perceptions and behaviors. We have to think from the outside in. And I think that

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Yeah,

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): same principle can apply to us as individual owners, leaders, um people leaders about the way that we’re viewed by those that we serve.
 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Um

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): right.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): So I think that’s really important. I also really like how you touched on helping unlock that measure of discretionary effort among your team through being an actual leader. You know, follow me instead of do what I say or or you’re going to hit the highway type of a mentality, which is really

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Yeah.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): important. So, maybe talk to us a little bit more about communication and give us some some guides or tips, you know, for the people manager, for the team member, how can we, you know, communicate better to to

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Okay.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): improve here?

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Well, well, let’s examine what is the perception of communication. I love what you said, perception is reality. It absolutely is. And your perception is made up of the stories, all the linguistic stuff that you grew up with that really that drives you. You know it’s all of your like it don’t like it makes sense don’t make sense good bad right wrong agree or disagree which is what in other words when you look out in the world when you experience input sight sound smell taste whatever you don’t get a direct experience of that because your anatomy is right there telling you good bad right wrong like it don’t like it agree with it disagree with it makes sense don’t make
 
  
Cary Prejean (Guest): sense all the time plus an ocean of other assessments so all you get to experience of life is a narrative of it make sense

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yep.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): So as people, as human beings, most people don’t even get that they have a narrative and that the narrative actually drives them. They’re not really consciously choosing much. It’s choosing for them. It’s already, you know, we’re very prejudiced in a lot of ways. We’ve already prejudged. We’ve already pre You have your favorite food. You have your favorite salad dressing. You have your favorite types of entertainment. You have your favorite whatever, right? And you have a lot at the same time, you have a lot of stuff you hate. you would never do that or you’ve tried it and it’s really distasteful. So this is an example I use all the time. If you’d been born say in the 1500s in some remote area of say PC what is today Pakistan and you grew up in a very strict Muslim family and let’s say you’re born in the opposite sex you would be a different person even if the entity who is you could be transported to that other body and that circumstance you would grow up with a very different perspective a very different uh narrative you would have a very
 
  
Cary Prejean (Guest): different taste different beliefs different everything that make sense

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Yeah. Okay. So, what you have to get is that a business owner has their own narrative that they grew up with and yeah, they you know, I believe anyway that we’re born with a certain personality style. We have certain dominant traits. Uh but most of our lives are built in acquiring or developing the narrative and finding evidence to make sure that that’s right. Right. Especially those beliefs we hold very dear. You know the ones that and here’s how to tell if something’s very very dear. No matter what you refuse to examine it. But could this be wrong? Right? Because that’s generally what’s the ones you hold on to that strongly are generally the ones going to cause you some amount of conflict because again we we they’re opinions and we forget that they’re opinions. They’re just narratives. We forget they’re narratives. We begin to hold things like the truth in all caps.
 
 
Cary Prejean (Guest): And as human beings, we have about this much capacity to tell what is quote the truth. You know, now there are facts, they’re true things. They’re true facts. This is a pen. Why is this a pen? Because there’s societal agreement that there are certain aspects of it. I’m trying to get in front of the camera there that it is a utensils used for writing, you know, writing. And it it has ink. It’s not a pencil. It has ink and you can retract the pen and all that stuff. You refill whatever that those distinctions are. We have societal group that’s a pen. In certain parts of the world where there’s no civilization, this this is not a pen. This is I don’t know what digging the dirt with it. You know, they don’t have the distinction of writing or pens or any of that stuff. There’s no there’s no universal truth. This is a pen. It is true. It’s a fact in small caps.
 
  
Cary Prejean (Guest): We agree this is a pen. So when you begin to get some I guess hit that we have very little capacity to turn away the truth. They’re often true facts but mostly we live in a world of assessments, right? Everything is an opinion. Yeah. And so a lot of the stuff we react to so strongly sometimes or that we believe in so strongly, it’s just an opinion. So you change the story, you change the interpretation, you change the opinion, you change the experience, right? The big one is you put a bunch of people on the roller coaster. Some people come off scared to death. I’ll be like, “Yeah, it’s all right, but I don’t want to go again.” Other people like, “Can I go again?” You know, so the event was the same for everybody. The experience was very different. So you know, people thought, well, we have all these shared experiences. There are no shared experiences. I don’t. Now, they may be very similar, but there’s going to be some differences.
 

 
Cary Prejean (Guest): So, you can share events, but you can’t share experiences. So, with all that said, go back to communication. Know that the way you see the world is when you’re speaking to someone, they’re going to see the world differently than you. Maybe just slightly differently, but differently. And especially if you’re an entrepreneur and you’re speaking to an employee, they’re really going to see the world differently than you. Because as an entrepreneur, there’s only about 10% of the people that see the world the way they see it. Entrepreneurs see a lot of opportunities. They want to take risks. They want to take action. They make things happen. They don’t take no for an answer. They work fast. And they’re great at starting things. They’re pretty bad at followup. Um, you know, they’re bad at the details. They’re bad at creating a system that will continue to produce the results. Whereas most people see risk where the entrepreneur sees possibilities.
 
  
Cary Prejean (Guest): They’re scared to take those risks. They’re going to be a little conservative. They’re willing to take no financial on a lot of things. Okay, I can’t do that. Okay. Um and they’re really looking for, you know, a job and a paycheck and they don’t want the responsibility the owner has. They don’t want to go home and think about the business. So, when you start to get that those just just the beginning of those perspectives, you’re gonna you’re not going to communicate in the same wavelength in a lot of ways. So, the owner has to take responsibility for my company, my my my my and they’re left with okay that’s great and I don’t really care. So there there has to be some there has to be some uh ownership on the part of the entrepreneur to know how to speak into what his employees are listening to and be able to motivate elevate empower is a better word empower them and and what I talk about is having adult conversations and so people what is that okay imagine a conversation with a teenager what do you get the teenagers generally they never take responsibility it’s never their fault you know, it’s and they don’t want to they don’t want to hear that they’re missing something, they did something wrong, they don’t know something.
 
 
Cary Prejean (Guest): Um, teenagers also give everybody in the world permission to assess them and then they take it all very personal, right? And they do a lot of blame. It’s your fault and you never love me and you just don’t understand me and all that kind of stuff. So, that’s a teenage conversation, right? It’s not my fault. An adult conversation is, hey, this is what’s at hand. Here’s the problem. Here’s the issue. Here’s, you know, what are your thoughts on how we could do this? Okay. So, yeah, and here’s kind of my thoughts. And then maybe you could do this. What do you think about you contributing to this part of it? Can you get this part of it done? Can you do that? When can you get it done? Having an adult conversation about how we’re equals even though you own the company doesn’t make you a better person. It just means you own the company. And yes, you have the authority to hire, fire, etc. But if you want to engage people, you want to empower them to be on your team, have an adult conversation about this is what’s in front of us.
 
 
Cary Prejean (Guest): How can you contribute? How can you help? This is what I see as may be possible for you. You tell me what you see. Okay? Now you’re speaking to them that it’s okay. Now he wants to hear what I have to say or she wants to hear what I have to say rather than there’s a problem. Here’s the solution : get it done, which is what happens in most things. Um then there’s the whole thing about well here’s the other thing. If you look at a business you can see it more as a network of conversations right between the people at the bottom level people in production ; they’re mainly concerned with fulfilling promises. You know if you’re on the factory floor you’re on the assembly line whatever you’re in that you’re in the business of fulfilling promises getting things done. If you’re in supervisor managerial uh role, you’re mainly concerned with requests off the promises, coordinating resources, people given on directance from above. If you’re in the top level, you’re mainly concerned with declarations, assessments and declarations, and assessments are special cont.
 
  
Cary Prejean (Guest): But you’re declaring the direction of the company. You’re declaring the scope of things. You’re declaring the culture. You’re declaring who our customers are. you know, you’re declaring a lot about and again people say, “So, what’s the big deal about declarations? Unless you have a declaration, you have no company.” If you think about it, every company, every country on the planet throughout history was created by declaring it into being first. I mean, you didn’t, you didn’t get into business and after three years, I think I’ll start a business, right? I mean, you said, “I’m going to start a business, and this is what we’re going to do, and I will make some money doing this stuff.” You declared that into existence. You declare yourselves married. I do. This country was declared into existence by the Declaration of Independence, right? So, declarations can be very powerful. They begin to invent the horizon of what’s possible. And the way you solidify that in and specifics is with making the effective request, effective offers, and following that getting acceptance where you have effective promises.
 

 
Cary Prejean (Guest): And if you look at most businesses, they do a really, really sloppy job of all three of those in terms of requests, offer promises. There’s a lot of, you know, hey, be nice if, and I’ve heard this, somebody needs to do something. Okay, I’ll take out the trash. Is that going to do it? So, we need to do something about this with no suggestion as to what specifically, who specifically, how specifically, by when. So, what is an effective request? What is an effective offer? Both start with an effective speaker. In other words, I’m here to make you an offer. I need to ask you to do something. But first, you need to have a committed speaker. I mean, a committed listener by making sure they are listening. I mean, how many times have you seen somebody come in and somebody’s working on their computer and they just start talking,
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Mhm.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): right? They’re not listening to you. They’re distracted by this.
 
 
Cary Prejean (Guest): After a while, what? What? And when you finish saying what you’re saying, they go, “Yeah, okay.” And they missed half what you said. And then it doesn’t get done. It’s like, “Well, I asked you.” No, you didn’t. You said something about it, but I didn’t know. Well, you know, instead of saying, “Hey, listen. You have a minute. I need to ask you something.” Okay. So, this is what’s going on. this request. I ask you to do A, B, C, and D, and I ask if I need it done by Friday at noon. Can you do that? Yes. That’s a promise. Yes, I’m going to do it. I promise to get ABC and D done by noon Friday. And what’s really effective with promises when you’re done, hey, I finished I finished asking what you asked me to do. You want to come check it and see if you know if it’s all right, if I’ve done it right.
 

 
Cary Prejean (Guest): And a lot of times people say, yeah, okay. And they do it. Maybe they do it right, maybe they don’t, but they never say, “Hey, I finished so many followers.” Hey, did you do such and such? Yeah. Yeah, I finished that yesterday. Why didn’t you tell me, you know, I laid awake at 2 a.m. last night? Wonder if this is done because it’s crucial to whatever it is we’re up to. Is all this making sense?

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. No, I really like that. I think I’m just kind of jumping in here with a couple thoughts. Um, I know there are great project management softwares out there like Asauna and Monday.com that can help formalize processes for collaboration and decision- making. At a previous company, we used a model um R A CI for the person that’s responsible, the person that has authority to approve. C is the consultant, someone that maybe helps with the project, but they’re not the owner. And then I am the informant, someone who needs to be aware about something, but they’re not the doer or the approver.
 

 
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Um because sometimes different projects can affect different groups throughout the organization. So I think at least from what I’m hearing um from you is we need normalization of you know shared respect of our team members to have respect for their time for their expertise. We need to um actually prioritize communicating like adults and following up do what we say we will do um as a principal. Does that sound about right or or would you add to that?

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Yes. Just remember that declaration set the stage for the future. Request offers and pro promises actually invented. The present that you and I and Chris are enjoying here right now was invented in the past or was created in the past through language. It was all through we had a brief uh conversation but it was mainly through email which is language.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Mhm.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): So language created this present in the past. So here’s something. If you don’t like your circumstance, you don’t like how your life is going, begin having different conversations, begin making different offers, requests, and promises and probably with different people.
 
 
Cary Prejean (Guest): If if

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Your life is kind of ineffective, it’s not happening for you. Maybe you’re having the wrong conversations or maybe you’re having the right conversations. Maybe you’re with the wrong people.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): You know, it’s kind of like the Sam Kenneth joke talking about, you know, feeding the people in Africa. He said, you know, he said, you know, God, hey, there’s sand. It’s a desert. He said, don’t send them money. Send them U-Haul trailers to get some place that’s livable.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): I like that. Yeah. Change the environment. One thing I would add, um, I think written communication, you know, you mentioned we set most of this up on email. We had one, uh, virtual conversation and that was really helpful. But we did a lot of our communicating by email. And I think that written communication is so important for making effective requests because it gives you something to follow up on. And lots of times your email will even remind you like, “Oh, you didn’t receive a response to this email. Do
 
  
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): you want to follow up with it?”

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): right?

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): And then I would say one of the most key parts of that is as the employee reporting back when that uh request has been fulfilled, when they kept their promise, right? I

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Right.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): think that’s so important because it saves time from the person who’s who’s trying to make sure that gets done and and following up, but it also shows that your employees reliable and that you don’t have to micromanage them and it creates a better relationship of trust

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Absolutely.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): and those individuals. I mean, you know, you mentioned how the employees may be there to try to only do the bare minimum to not get fired and collect that paycheck. I certainly feel that there’s an amount of the workforce that may presently be in that state of disengagement, but each of us, you know, we’re the captains of our own souls and the, you know, the masters of our own fates and we have our own reputation to protect. And I think a lot of individuals who are members of teams, they’re motivated by the growth of their own career, their own reputation, their own network.
 
  
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): And that can be a strong driver for doing what Christa said as being self-motivated to go back to your boss and follow up. But not everyone’s in that boat and you know there’s different roles that don’t need as much you know proactive management and so um it depends on the industry and the team and the position and different things but people managers I think they should always be more proactive in engaging with helping their teams win on an individual basis and a team basis and that in turn can help help their team progress in the business and because there you’re They’re in that middle area of collaborating between the declarations and fulfilling the promises and

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Yeah.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): and Oh, sorry. You go ahead.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): No, no. Please, please. Ladies first.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Oh, I was just going to say and and Carrie, so you’ve talked a lot throughout this conversation about personalities and and you know the declaration people they especially the leaders, the owners, they are establishing how that communication is going to go and um I had the chance to take your predictive index assessment and I I would love it if you could share a little bit about that with our listeners and how they can try that for themselves some way.
 
  
Cary Prejean (Guest): Yeah. Uh, predictive index, let me tell you a little background. It goes back to the 50s. It was started by a couple of guys, I believe in the Air Force intelligence. Of course, back then everything was written. Uh, they finally got computerized, I think, in the 70s and 80s. And now they’ve got it to where there’s AI involved, but they have I forget tens of millions of people taking this. So they have this huge database of people’s responses that they’ve been able to gauge. It’s a really simple six minute test. I mean, you didn’t have to know calculus or Shakespeare or anything. It’s just

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah, it was

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): um

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): it was

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): What’s amazing is the assessments that come out of just that little test that tell you four main areas: basically are you more independent and driven and dominant or are you more of the team player type. Uh the next one is about are you more extroverted or you more reserved.
 
 
Cary Prejean (Guest): You know, it would not necessarily mean introverted. It may be, but there’s, you know, the entrepreneurs are very extroverted, right? Most people are a little bit reserved. I want to see what I want to see what you’re all about before I actually open up a little bit before I actually trust you much. I want to see what’s going on here. The third one is uh what we call pace. And for most people, they want a nice steady pace. Don’t make me hurry. Don’t switch gears. Oh, no. Don’t tell me, “Okay, I need to handle this now.” Uh, okay. 10 minutes later here, handle this now. And, uh, oh, yeah. Uh, in the next hour, I need you to switch to this. Most people hate that, you know. Uh, at the same time, entrepreneurs, if you said, here’s your stack of stuff and it’s this big. Just work on it all day and get it, but they would kill themselves.
 
 
Cary Prejean (Guest): They can’t handle that. They want, you know, where’s the next shiny object? Um, so, so pace is either real steady and again there’s certain positions, certain jobs you want somebody who’s be real steady, somebody who’s doing something that’s extraordinarily precise. Let’s say a machinist and they’ve got to make those things extraordinarily precise from cog some piece of an instrument. You want them to be very steady with your own Russian where entrepreneurs are very fast-paced. They want to change gears. And what’s really interesting to really, in fact, most entrepreneurs, you throw them a little chaos every now and then, they love it. They love it. I mean, not all the time, but you know, for until for an afternoon, maybe they love that. And then the last one is uh how precise are you? You know, do you want to know what’s expected of you? Do you want the rules to have the results that’s expected? Everything you want to know. You want to know you want to have a real clear picture of what’s going on and how you’re supposed to do it.
 
 
Cary Prejean (Guest): The other side is well I want to be more flexible. I don’t need to know all the rules. I don’t need to know the expectations. I’ll figure it out. I’ll do something. And that’s where most entrepreneurs are. That’s why they’re bad at followup. They’re bad at the details. Um they can get all kinds of things going. Just don’t ask them to follow up and make it continue. So I don’t know. Did you want to discuss your profile in particular or

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Uh,

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): you just

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): sure.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): want

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah, sure. I took the assessment. So, and and Carrie sent over uh I guess my my results and I was an analyzer, which maybe Carrie, you can tell a little bit about what that means and

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Okay. So, let me share my screen. I have your profile pulled up. Okay. Uh y’all see this?

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. Yep.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Okay.
 
 
Cary Prejean (Guest): So you look over here, it says that your profile says that I think there’s 19. It says that you’re an analyzer, that you’re intense with high standards as a disciplined and reserved personality. Does that sound like you?

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): It

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): More importantly,

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): does.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Matt,

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): It

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): does

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): does.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): that sound

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): At

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): like

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): least

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): her?

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): my perspective of myself. That does sound like me. I I

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Okay.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): would agree.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): So, the first one talks about independence versus the team player thing, right? So you’re independent and what it says is that you’re you know you’re closer to like what these this is a center bar right here with the little fulcrum at the bottom that’s one sigma 2 sigma three sigma right and look at this this way the further away you are from the middle line it’s like turning up the volume so this says that you’re independent but you’re not like super dominant. Uh, I had a client that had a warehouse manager.
 
 
Cary Prejean (Guest): His independence, he was like, “Oh, way over here.”

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Oh,

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): And they’re

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): wow.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): like, “We tell this guy what we want all the time and he just does what he wants.” I said, “Have you seen his profile?” I said, “He’s a three sigma. I’m independent. You could tell him whatever you want to. You can do what he wants.” Right.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Interesting.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Um, so they say that you’re dominant. Now again, you’re not so far away from it that you can’t come over here and be a team player when needed, but you’re more comfortable over here getting things your way. And then over here on extraversion versus being reserved, you’re right at one sigma reserve. So you’re not going to be, you know, when you meet there some people you meet, they’re just chatty Kathy off the bat, right? They tell you about everything. They’ll tell you about their life. They’ll want to know about your life. They’ll tell you about hobbies, my cat, my whatever.
 

 
Cary Prejean (Guest): You’re gonna be, “Yeah, how you doing? Nice to meet you.” Uhhuh. Professional conversation at first and maybe after a while, you know, you might start talking a little bit about your personal life, right? Yeah.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah,

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Let’s ask your husband. Yeah, I’m married.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): sounds

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): My husband

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): right.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Matt. My husband Matt. Yeah, he’s Yeah, I love him. And maybe they’re looking for Yeah. Oh, he’s just he’s this wonderful guy or he’s just whatever. He gets on earth sometimes. Whatever they’re looking for, right? You’re not going to do that. You’re going to give them just enough and you know, you’re going to have to earn the rest.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Also, over here you’re more driving than steady. And again, you’re not quite one sigma, but you tend to like things a little bit at a fast pace, right? If you had to sit there and do a stack of paperwork all day to say that it was this high, you wouldn’t enjoy that.
 
 
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Probably not.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): No, you’re gonna want things to move along. You probably want to enjoy a change of gears every now and then. Change, you know, you do this for a while, then you do that for a while, then you go over here and do this for a while, right?

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): And what’s really unusual about your profile is that on precision, you’re more than one sigma on the precise side. Generally, when you see this much in terms of precision, this C is going to be over here on the steady side because people who are very precise, not only do you want to know exactly what’s expected and how it’s supposed to be done, you’re going to deliver exactly how it’s asked for, how it’s supposed to. You’re going to deliver exactly. That’s like he says up here, you’re intense, high standards, and a disciplined and reserved personality. So, yeah, you’re going to be highly highly disciplined. You’re going to deliver the goods exactly as ordered.
 
  
Cary Prejean (Guest): Um, but usually when you see that much precision, you see this over here, you’re going to be more of a slow, slower, steadier pace because people who usually act fast aren’t that precise. We’re very people, people who are usually very precise are going to be more deliberate. You see what I’m saying? So this rare combination is in the right places, especially entrepreneurial businesses, very much sought after. They want somebody who can do something fast but be very good at it because you get fast and sloppy like entrepreneurs or you get slow you get slow steady but very precise but they want results now.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Am I making sense? And

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Again this is so this self is how you see yourself in a business setting. Right? Down here is how you think others want you to be in a business setting. So you see, oh down here you you think people want you to be even more precise, more reserved and even more and even
 
 
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Interesting.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): faster but about the same about the same dominance. And then down here is just a combination of the two. The synthesis is just an average amount too. But again you have all this down here, all this narrative about what your strongest behaviors are. This is always interesting to read. To maximize effectiveness, productivity, and job satisfaction, consider providing Crystal with the following. Encouragement to express their own ideas and put them in action. That’s the dominant part. Freedom from day-to-day pressure to make quick decisions outside an area of expertise. Right? In other words, if somebody if let’s say your specialty is marketing and somebody came and asked you about accounting, it’s like I don’t do accounting, I do marketing, right? Um absence of very close critical oversight of the work. You do not want somebody micromanaging at all. Right.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah, Matt

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Uh

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): can attest to that. Amen.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Like you breathing on me, you need something. Um it’s also an opportunity to use your knowhow and expertise in finding creative solutions to problems with relative freedom from organizational involvement in doing so.
 
  
Cary Prejean (Guest): Again, that’s part of your dominance, but it’s also part of your precision as well as your fast pace. Does that make sense?

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Uh and

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Very

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): And again let me up here. Um what’s interesting is you have these you can get that comes with several assessments and one of them is this management strategy guide. Hang on. Pull over. Okay, it’s coming. All right, so hit the management development chart. What it shows here is that in dominance that you’re moderately drives change and challenges the status quo. Let me make that a little bigger. Um but again the caution is you may seem overly aggressive by direct reports. Uh you’re a natural lead leader seeking to make an impact but the caution is you may intimidate rather than motivate. You know your intensity like you need to get this done now. It’s like

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Christa is very intense stuff.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): yeah um your self motivated achievement oriented style but you may have difficulty delegating authority like that’s not going to do it good.
 

 
Cary Prejean (Guest): I might as well go do it myself. Um,

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. Yeah.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): assertive and willing to take charge but may appear to be tough- minded and direct directive. Um, so some self coaching tips though. Actively seek input from direct reports. Practice active listening and encourage your team to express their opinions or ideas. Think before you speak. Think of how your message will be received. In other words, this is like listening to the listening of the people you’re speaking to. What’s their narrative? How can I speak into that? That’s just on the dominance point over here on extraversion. Your datadriven analytical decision-making style. The caution is you may be slow to demonstrate trust until comfortable with new team members. That’s very much so with reserved uh people. Your thoughtful approach to communicating information to team members. Communication may be too pointed for socially driven team members. So there’s some people they want to they want to feel like we’re all friends, you know, they’re not they don’t want to hear some pointed business objective assessment like this report is sloppy
 

 
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): instead of h you know this report could be a little tighter, a little more exact, you’re kind of missing some, you know, this is a sloppy report. um reflective and introspective um and you anticipate problems may appear overly task focused or remote. So self- coaching tips give presentations about your area of expertise. Uh initiate conversations or schedule time to speak with team members. U it shows that you’re more open, right? You’re available. Um and create processes that encourage communication among team members. And down here on P uh patients or space pains that you’re moderately proactive and results oriented leadership style. You may appear to be the more steady team members like for example what are you waiting for? What’s taking so long? You’re able to deal with time pressure. They tend to be intolerant of delays, especially packing results. And again what’s taking so long? Um you’re able to deal with variety and change. uh you’re also a multitasker able to juggle priorities may become frustrated by the team’s pace and ability and ability to be flexible.
 
 
Cary Prejean (Guest): So again, self coaching tips reflect on situational urgency. Does everything need to be done right now? And this drives me crazy because as far as I’m concerned, yes, it does. As Joe couldn’t say, I feel your pain. Recognize that people have different paces and manage expectations, honor priorities, and see initiatives through to completion. Then on formality or precision like to call it. Again, this is very see all the rest of these were moderately okay. Very very conservative reserved and then moderately dominant. But here on precision formality, your very strong discipline of execution emphasis on quality may be uncomfortable in management ambiguous situations. In some ways, if they say like just get it done, do a good job. What are you, what are you talking about? builds team structure and respect for the plant. May struggle with situations that call for team and personal flexibility like no no the plan says this and you want to do that focus this team on how to get things done organized and thorough follow up with direct reports may be seen as a perfectionist rather than a producer that ever happens.
 

 
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Okay. Self- coaching tips to learn how to move forward when enough information is available. And I get this from some business owners. It’s like, hey, is it 80% is it 80% good enough? That’s all we require. It doesn’t have to be 100%. Drives me crazy, too.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Okay.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Um, ask yourself, is it worth this much time in process? Recognize and respect flexibility shown by direct reports. Um, okay. So, there’s another

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): This

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): one

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): is great.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): I want you. Huh.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Well, this is great. I think this is really helpful to have results like that that kind of help you be more introspective. And to all of our listeners, I think this assessment could be really helpful in your communication with your direct reports and those reporting to you. Um, like you were talking about the personalities and how messages are received. And I think this could be a good team building thing where you guys kind of understand better how you communicate with each other and where you’re coming from and what you’re near what their narratives are and then also to just be more introspective and self-improvement.
 
 
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): So, um, check out Car’s predictive index test and we will include a link in our highlight article. Um Carrie just asked that you let him know when you’ve taken the test so that by email and we’ll include that email in the highlight

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Yeah.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): highlight.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Otherwise, it’ll just be a name.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. And yeah,

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): What do I do with it?

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): so to get this full full assessment with the, you know, uh I guess the index scoring and then also just the advice on how you can be introspective and and what’s your strengths and weaknesses to get that. Shoot Carrie an

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Yeah.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): email, follow him on LinkedIn.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Yeah. Listen, there’s also a relationship guide in here where you can take your assessment, your profile, and compare it to somebody you work with and it’ll tell you like possible conflicts as well as, you know, how the relationship probably going to look and just cautionary areas um and as well as suggestions on how to work better.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): like that.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): And I’ve done this with several people where they’ll send in theirs and they’ll have like their key people who work direct reports send theirs in and then I go through it with them like, “Okay, you see this one right here? See how independent and dominant they are? I bet you butttheads.” Yeah. How’d you know that? I said, “Because I’m looking at your profiles. You’re dominant. They’re dominant. You’re gonna but I bet you that sounds like okay, I’ll do it. You’re the boss.” Yeah.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. And honestly, in the workplace, there are relationships that exist. It’s not the same as a family or friend relationship, but there’s a working relationship that a tool like this can help increase working efficiency to have better results and more happiness in those working relationships, whether it’s a peer-to-peer or manager to employee or the other way. Um, so we’re really grateful for you joining us here today, Carrie. And to everyone listening, check out the resources that’ll be linked on the highlight article. Make sure to follow us on LinkedIn and on your favorite podcast platform and share a review of the show. So Carrie, thanks for joining us today and

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Hey,

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): until

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Matt.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): next time. Very

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Yeah. Hey,

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): insightful.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): listen. It has been my pleasure, both of you. I really enjoyed it. Great conversation.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Ours as well. Thanks Carrie. Yep.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Yes,

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): We’ll

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): sir.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): see you.

 

Cary Prejean (Guest): Bye. Bye.