Matt Vance: Welcome everyone. We are so excited. We have Rebecca Hills here from Lincoln England, and we had a chance to meet with her last week. And she has such a bright personality.

Matt Vance: A workplace being specialist and executive coach Rebecca Hill develops leaders to support and strengthen the being of their teams through company culture. She has worked with a range of businesses, from medium-sized startups to global PLCs. Using her personal professional experience. She applies an informed approach that promotes inclusivity and creates cultures that productivity through sustainable employee Thanks for being here with us, Rebecca.

Rebecca Heald: Thank you. That introduction. Made me sound really special.

Matt Vance: You were Just on our call last week, it was awesome to hear a little bit about what you’re doing and we’re pumped to have you here. So thank you.

Rebecca Heald: No Thank you for creating time or making the time for this because I think it’s super important. The more people that we can reach talking about what we’re talking about. I think the better

Matt Vance: Exactly, definitely. And before we kind of jump into the conversation today, everyone needs to know and hear a little bit about Rebecca’s awesome organization. It’s called More than nutrition. Is a corporate Offering one coaching workshops and training for people leaders and teams with a wide array of topics available. More than nutrition aims to support the body and mind, promote healthy lifestyles and engaging workplaces. So, Rebecca is essentially, you’re a person to help level up the company culture in your workplace and we’re excited to chat today. So just to kind of kick things off. Tell us why you’re in the company culture business.

Rebecca Heald: Yeah, so there is a story. I’ll try and keep it as succinct as possible so my backstory is actually I started out as a teacher and then went over into educational leadership. But behind the scenes, I was struggling with an eating disorder with domestic abuse. And whilst on the outside looking in, I seem to be, really successful, seem to be happy seem to be, doing what everyone does in life, But I was really struggling and, working 24/7 to try and avoid I suppose, all of the issues that we’re really going on. but then I kind of

Rebecca Heald: To be honest, hit breaking point. And after I had my second son and had really experienced really bad postnatal depression which combined with the burnout that I was experiencing with the domestic abuse with the disorder, it was just like, hang on a minute here, something’s got to give. So I decided that I wanted to work for myself to set up my own business to really find myself again if I’m honest, because actually that’s what has happened. Since I started the business, it has helped me to grow and find myself again and the business has evolved with me in that. Respect. So when I first started out, I retrained in nutrition as you can imagine.

Rebecca Heald: With my eating disorder history with the trauma experienced as a child and, really wanted to help people that were suffering with their relationship with food. They’ve been conditioned to think that they’ve got to fit into this I suppose ideal unrealistic image of what we should all be looking at again. This ideal really destroys our relationship with our body as well as our relationship with food. So I felt really passionate about that still of course, so started the business focusing on that and then very quickly started to obviously work with people across other areas because if you’re working with somebody done healing their relationship with food, you’re going to be looking at wellbeing in the widest sense because it impacts everything. And then over time, I was working with leaders, I was working with business owners. I was working with CEOs who then, really benefited from the results that we’re getting working with me. So they asked me to go in and work with their organizations.

Rebecca Heald: And kind of mold the nutrition evolved from there. So it was, me working going into organizations really working with employees and seeing that bigger picture of how well being can really impact culture and obviously business outcomes. But interestingly and through that work kind of made the connection between what I was doing and what I’d been doing in leadership in education and really realizing that it needed to come from the top down, which is now why I’m not just going in and working with employees and I’m working with leadership teams. I’m working on really instilling this culture of being that in the end gives everybody. What is that they want? Happiness? Profitability? engagement, it just sounds so simple when you think about it but it’s not that simple when you put it into practice.

00:05:00

Matt Vance: Thank you for sharing all that and I know you’re very open about your past and it really does fuel what you’re doing. Now, it provides a lot of meaning for you and for the people that you’re working with. Very inspirational. I think sometimes we separate work life and the rest of our life. And say that there’s, kind of this line in between, but we’re all people and all those things that happen to people on a daily basis that are, happy and sad and challenging. And, frustrating, those feelings, those emotions, those experiences. They can roll into the workplace as well. And so, not paying attention to those things and acknowledging them is just not realistic.

Rebecca Heald: yeah, and I think, it’s about Obviously, we all need to find that life balance but it’s also about how because one of the biggest things for me is recognizing the conditioning that you bring into the workplace. So like I said, when what I was experiencing at home, I felt like, what my way to prove myself to show that I was worthy was to throw myself into work and leave myself into

Rebecca Heald: Burnout. and I’m really experiencing poor mental health, and I think sometimes we’ve got. And again, you can’t say that conditioning isn’t just about trying to show your worth through work, it then impacts on your behaviors. When your behavior around food, your behaviors with yourself, your behaviors, when you’re looking at yourself in the mirror, all of this has a huge impact on how you show up at work. So it’s five as well. It really is. And I think that’s one of the things that I think has attracted a lot of the clients that I’m working with it’s kind of my holistic approach and, whilst I think we need to be clear on where we’re going and everybody needs to know what their outcomes are etc. It’s also about recognizing that the leadership journey, the business journey, the personal journey, it’s dynamic,

Rebecca Heald: And we’ve always got to bear that in mind, and we’ve got to make sure that we are checking in with ourselves and staying present and being in the moment along the way.

Matt Vance: I love that holistic approach because I think as soon as you neglect anything that affects us in our personal lives, it affects the other things, everything affects everything right. Our nutrition can affect our bodies as a whole, and it can affect our work productivity. And the way that we feel at work and interact with others, can make us have a harder time with our physical health, And so, they all impact each other. And I love the way that you approach that with companies. And also, I just think it’s so interesting with your business. I mean, you’re going to these companies, you’re showing them a better way to help them have just a great company culture, but really improving the lives of the individuals there. And I’m sure you have to have a bottom line. That shows these companies like This is worth the money that you’re gonna put into, to really make this better for your employees and

Matt Vance: That’s what this podcast is all about which brings us to our main question. How does company culture drive profits?

Rebecca Heald: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that’s obviously why people are employing me and why people want to work with me. And I think the one thing that I really want to say here is that, the employee experience, how we treat our people is one of the strongest predictors I suppose of business results. So when you’re investing in your culture, your business is fundamentally going to be more profitable. Because, you’re putting your people at the center, you’re putting your people first because this is one thing that I always encourage. So I’m going off a little bit on a tangent, but I always encourage organizations to think about relationships before they think about hierarchies. Because when we are creating a sense of belonging in the workplace, we’re creating high trust cultures. We’re creating workplaces, where there are higher retention rates, people don’t want to leave. And if people don’t want to leave your savings, how much money by avoiding the recruitment process, etc. 

00:10:00

Matt Vance: Yeah.

Rebecca Heald: from having to go through the recruitment post process and everything. There’s so much research that shows that when people are recognizing their teams, when companies are great places to work, their turnover is lower than that of their peers. And I think the Fortune 100 Best companies are experiencing half the turnover of their peers, so the evidence is there to show how focusing on cultures is having an impact on the bottom line. And not only when it comes to retention but also when it comes to burnout, so this is a huge focus in the leadership programs that I do and I also not only want leadership training. We also look at burnout prevention strategies because you know that they are different. This would be a standalone and when it comes to wellbeing and the thing is that, when I think it’s something like 500, I mean, and again, this figure might have changed from when I last looked at it, but it’s something like workplace stress is costing Americans, or cost in the US 500 billion pound a year, So again if you are focusing on culture you’re avoiding burnout your and you’re not wasting or you’re not having that money I suppose on people going off.

Rebecca Heald: And people suffering from stress. And, people aren’t, the pandemic. It’s interesting because research has shown as well that on the back of the pandemic even though there has been such, so much buzz around People are still not healthy. People are less healthy, and at best are as healthy as there were before the pandemic. So whilst there is this drive to look at wellbeing, which we hope we’re going to talk about. As we go on, I think that we’re not serving it necessarily in the right way, Employees don’t need nutrition workshops. They don’t need mindfulness workshops, they don’t need to talk about work, work-life balance. if the culture,

Rebecca Heald: Let’s talk about psychological safety. If we’ve got psychological safety within an organization, your people are going to take risks, And when they take risks, that’s when they’re going to be their most creative. What’s when they’re going to be their most innovative? And of course, it’s going to drive profitability. If people are being more innovative. So invest in your culture, invest in creating a psychologically, safe environment and your business is going to thrive and, there’s also research to show that and businesses that focus on culture, they rebound faster in times of recession. And I think one point I really want to make here as well is that profits don’t create great workplaces. It’s the other way around, create a great workplace, you create a great culture and therefore you’re going to increase profitability and so yeah. Sorry, I don’t have enough.

Rebecca Heald: And see any tangents but, I think everything. When you talk about workplace culture, it all links to a happier workplace…

Matt Vance: That’s amazing.

Rebecca Heald: where people are more profitable and people are just feeling like they belong.

Matt Vance: Rebecca and what I’m hearing from you and I 100% agree with this is you have to pay attention to the order of operations. It’s people before profits,…

Rebecca Heald: Yes. Yes.

Matt Vance: you talk about Maslow’s hierarchy of We as humans have levels of needs that stack upon each. Other safety is at the very bottom, if you don’t have that safety need fulfilled. if you can’t have food and water and air

Matt Vance: Call safety. Has almost a prerequisite to unlocking innovation, unlocking creativity and that environment where it’s okay to mess up because there’s trust built into those relationships across a team and…

Rebecca Heald: Thank you.

00:15:00

Matt Vance: With the leadership, those things are in an order of operations, and I absolutely loved how you said profits don’t create a good culture, but it’s the other way around. That is, that and I 100% agree.

Rebecca Heald: and as well, one thing I want to say is that I think people are recognizing people are understanding that, workplaces where people feel they belong, where there is psychological safety, we know that It has positive impact, but I’m still going into organizations that say, they have this psychological safety and I’m still going to organizations. We’ll go. Yeah, the culture of the team and that in itself it’s highlighting. I guess that it really is work that needs to be done.

Rebecca Heald: And yeah, yeah, so I think there is still even in the businesses in the organizations, that recognize The importance. It’s not there, and I think one of them just wanted to touch it. I can’t remember the exact, but the NASA spaceship and what was it called that, and

Matt Vance: Apollo.

Rebecca Heald: And this was, I know, sorry. And this was the perfect example of how psychological safety is important because I think, from after the accident happened, and they found out that there was a technical fault, but fundamentally it came down to the fact that there was a lack of communication. It was like safety and NASA, and that meant that people were scared to say, Hey, hang on a minute, this needs to happen and so that is fundamentally the lack of psychological safety that led to that fatal incident. And I think that I learned from that, and I think it’s quite famous. I can’t remember exactly because I’ve talked about it and training, but it’s been so wild since I have. But, I think, they had Round Table discussions afterwards and they really worked on creating these relationships in the workplace on, create a sense of belonging so that people could feel

Rebecca Heald: Unable to air their view so that mistakes were less likely to happen. So people think, if I take a risk and risk a mistake from happening, but actually it’s the opposite. You’re probably going to be preventing something from happening and I think there’s another example of Google. I think, I can’t remember who it was when it was at the early stages of the search engine. And again, I can’t move what I’m talking about because I can’t remember all the ins and outs, but there was Google and there was another organization at the time. I don’t know if you’ll know who they were, and they were kind of basically against each other to try, not optimize the search engine. And I think one of the organizations, the one and was really kind of process driven. There were lots of hierarchies in the place where I was Google. There was much more organized chaos. Yes. I think the CEO of Google at the time, I think that was team meetings and it seemed almost chaotic. But what happened was that he created this sense of

Rebecca Heald: Longing, this environment, where everybody kind of, felt safe to take risks felt safe to go above and beyond and that’s fundamentally how they ended up cracking. The search engine was bad, creating that psychological safety.

Rebecca Heald: Yes.

Matt Vance: To pay attention to is the misalignment that can happen in workplaces. And there’s one more dimension that I also see, which is the difference in perceived cultures based on showcased employee feedback that is shared online and online reviews and places like glassdoor indeed, and in the UK on canoe new those pieces of information are shaping perceptions on the outside and then you’ve got behavioral norms on the inside that are shaping behaviors and how people act and how people perceive and organization within the company. And so, you really have to understand that there are certain multiple facets of managing company culture and supporting people and individuals to do their best work and to unlock that creativity and support and trust. So yeah.

00:20:00

Rebecca Heald: Yeah. Fundamentally. Now it comes down to being human, nothing.

Matt Vance: Definitely. And I did have another question Rebecca. So you’ve helped a lot of companies through this cultural transformation from nothing to just kind of. Hey, take us meet us where we’re at and figure out where we need to go next. And when we spoke last week, you talked about first talking to leaders and they would give you, Hey, this is what the team needs. And then you go talk to the team and they’d say Actually we need this and this not That talk to us a little bit about going through that, it kind of discovery process and what have you found that employees? Truly need to do their best work.

Rebecca Heald: Yeah, and yeah, and I started to touch on that earlier but didn’t really kind of elaborate. So I’m pleased with you, that’s that but I think like I said before, the organizations that were working with or asking me to go in and do that sticking pasta stuff. Yeah, do that stuff? That we know that we all think wellness and in the work wellness looks like but being and wellness, the two different things and I think it so when I was going in and doing these workshops on nutrition on better, sleep on mindfulness employees, then Yeah that’s okay, but when my workload is like this when I feel like nobody’s listening to me, when I feel like I’ve got no control over my workload, but I feel like I’ve got no relationship with anybody in the workplace. When I feel like my boss isn’t listening to me, I can’t do this. I’m working on my fitness. I’m working. I know I need to eat better.

Rebecca Heald: But then, I come to work. And I’m stressed out. Then, and it’s interesting because burnout it’s them, the World Health Organization has defined. Burnout has been a workplace phenomenon, it’s not something we should apply to outside life, It’s not something we shouldn’t talk about burnout as being a result of what’s happening in our life. It’s a result of being unmanaged.

Rebecca Heald: Chronic stress in the workplace. So it’s a wee problem. So it’s one thing equipping people with knowledge around nutrition and movement, etc and how to manage their wellness. But it’s another thing actually, creating that environment for the best supports that. So, basically, teams were saying, I actually need my leader. To listen to me, I need my leader to be empathetic. I need my leader to be a little bit more honest and open and more vulnerable. I need my leader to be a bit more humble. Yeah. And so this is where kind of my program kind of grew I think, because it was, like, Hold on a minute here, it’s not about educating employees. There is a place for that. Don’t get me wrong. But if the environment isn’t right, If leaders don’t have the skills, or not nurturing, those skills that are going to support all of that education and knowledge in awareness, then it’s going to fall short so that is really whenever I’m working with an organization and the leaders are like,

Rebecca Heald: My team to be better to be the best versions of themselves. That’s great. We can talk about doing some of that. We can talk about doing some education piece further down the line but until I’ve trained your leadership team, until I’ve got them, in a place where they are best supporting that for their employees and it’s pointless. Does that make sense?

Matt Vance: Yeah, so that’s one of the first places you start is with the leaders, getting them in a good place because they really have the most impact on the organization. Is that right?

Rebecca Heald: So, I mean I have a program that I tend to kind of start with when I’m working with an organization. But I’m not going to sit here and say right with an organization, you do do this because it’s not how it works. I go in and I will have a conversation with the leadership team and sometimes, it’s quite easy to kind of you very often. They have got me because they know that there’s something different about what I do. It’s not just about workshops and stuff. There is a more holistic approach so I’ll have a conversation with the leadership team which usually then turns into a conversation with R and we talk about it. I taught them about how important developing the leadership team is. Usually they can see the value in that and then kind of get those quick wins in the early days. We kind of look at what their biggest pain point is and I’ll usually put in some training.

00:25:00

Rebecca Heald: In place for them to kind of tackle that whilst I’m getting to know because usually when I’m working with an organization, I’ll do great leadership training. But I’ve also done one-on-one coaching. So it will take me a good two to three months. If I’m honest I really understand what is going on in an organization, because I can go in and I can do a workshop first off and I could wait. Wow, they’re brilliant. They’re great and then you start doing the coaching. It’s like actually no this isn’t really what’s happening so it can take me a while to really mold things. So that they are having the biggest impact. Does that make sense?

Matt Vance: Yeah.

Rebecca Heald: And then usually, there are certain things there are certain, no long negotiables in what I do. I will always want to talk to an organization about how to create empathy, how to be more vulnerable and pathetic listening. I’ll always educate them on burnout. What it really means is the sounds to look for, but the rest of it depends on what’s going on in the organization? I pick up what they tell me. So we’ll do stuff surveys. We’ll do leadership surveys, but it really is crafted towards your organization.

Matt Vance: So really you approached the company and you customize what they need based on what they need, And so I think it sounds like the discovery process is your process. Just talking to having the right questions and giving them an environment with you to feel comfortable enough to really share what’s happening and what’s working well and what the pain points are

Rebecca Heald: Yeah, my ultimate aim is never to Make organized, I want to make leaders, more aware, more in tune with themselves. Let’s start listening because nine times out of 10, when you get into it one because it takes time again, though this isn’t a quick fix. There’s no point. We’re going into organization and only working with them for two or three months because it’ll take two or three months for them to trust me, it’ll take two or three months for them to really open up and not be like, yeah, but we know all this, because that I’m not going into an organization and telling them anything that’s rocket science.

Rebecca Heald: I might make it a few light bulb moments greatly if you like bald moments for them, but what I’m doing is I’m helping them to take action. I’m helping them to put things into place that they know deep down really need to happen, and it was always the same when I was working with and even now when I am working with my one class because it’s still doing the nutrition with the one-to-one work. Not as much of that, I’d still do a little bit of that. It is about really getting people to listen to themselves to have more confidence in themselves to become themselves. And this is the thing, when we are creating those environments that are safe leaders can be Ourselves. And there is nothing more powerful than a leader who is leading from their authentic self, because we lead

Rebecca Heald: from a place of who we are. And I think when we are getting so confused by 610 leadership models. And this is what we’ve got this process. We’ve got to put in place that process, we’ve got to put in place, we need to be looking at profits before people it just becomes so messy, and there were some really great leaders out there that I feel are and I’m not shining because of the condition in all the environment that they’re in.

Matt Vance: You mentioned getting leaders to be more self-aware, I think that’s so huge. I’ve seen that as a high topic in business books that I’ve read, it’s being self-aware so that you can make an impact and thanks for sharing that. And I think you’ve had these interviews with employees with leaders. In those companies, you have greater insight than most people. So what do you find? It? Truly helps an employee thrive.

Rebecca Heald: honestly, I think having Who sings? Two things. The first one is, having a leader having having, somebody who just listens. And when I say, listen, I don’t just mean, giving them 10 minutes or giving them half an hour to actively listen or even just

Rebecca Heald: listening from an empathetic place, and, really allowing a person with, just being hurt. And for a leader to be able to do that, they need to be making sure that they’re doing the work. They need to have done the work and be continually doing the work on themselves as well. Because if you’re not being aware and mindful and checking in with yourself, you can’t listen with empathy. Yeah, you can’t strip everything back and just be present for a person it’s going in with, no agenda. It’s going in with no sense of where it’s gonna go and just let him, it’s creating space. probably lose. A lot of words to explain what I’m trying to say there. But hopefully you get the sense of what I’m trying to say. And the second one is relationships and again, this feeds from that. But I think, there is so much evidence and research to show that when people feel that they have a friend at work, when people feel that they’ve got a relationship,

00:30:00

Rebecca Heald: The day at work, They are more likely to feel valued, They are more likely to be productive, They are more likely to be happy. Okay, so I know there’s a lot of talk about, I mean and don’t get me wrong. There needs to be a worthwhile life, balance people need to have, that they need to have boundaries but those relate we are human at the end of the day. And we are constantly looking for that connection, and if we’re trying to take that away then we’re not going to have happy healthy working environments.

Matt Vance: A hundred percent. And, I would just echo that I have seen that as well as I’ve helped companies through this company, culture transformation that you have to recognize.

Matt Vance: Is that people are people and you’ve got this business and you can’t separate the two. That businesses are made up of people, It’s not the inventory and the facility. And, you…

Rebecca Heald: Yes. Yes.

Matt Vance: the branding that is the business, all those things are facets. Associated with an organization associated with a brand and a company. But if you take the people away, there’s nothing left to move things forward and we are emotional beings, And so we have to understand how people think and operate and take the time to build trust. So that work relationships can be efficient so that we can support one another and allow that creative freedom to move things forward or even if there’s not a process that requires creativity to trust that other individual that they’ll get their job done. Right there. Those connections are made over time.

Rebecca Heald: Type.

Matt Vance: It’s not like a computer that you just put in the code and then it works. You have to start building

Matt Vance: those human connections, so that things can operate efficiently from person to person within a company. And I just have to say Rebecca, you are an inspiration. We’re so glad that you joined us here. Is there anything you want to share? Just before we wrap up any final thoughts?

Rebecca Heald: One thing I wanted to say, I think, is that It’s an analogy and really that, it takes a carpenter or it takes a builder, a lot of skill to build a building. Yeah. And that’s how we should be thinking about creating cultures that are psychologically safe and that sense of belonging, they take time to be crafted but also what we’ve got to bear in mind is that it can just take one thing to kind of knock that down it it doesn’t take a lot of skill to destroy. I suppose what has taken such

Rebecca Heald: So much effort and time to build and create. So I think we always need to be on our game. We always need to be thinking about, and when we’re talking about processes, we need processes in place, we need organizing organizational justice, however, we need to make sure that people are always at the center of that.

Matt Vance: Maintain the foundation, So keep things going right from the bottom and keep the safe environment that you’re hoping to have for your employees. I love it. Thank you. to our audience, check out Rebecca’s website and follow her on LinkedIn for more tips and find you can find both in our highlight article. Thank you so much Rebecca Hill for being with us

Rebecca Heald: Thank you so much. I know, I’d like to talk…

Matt Vance: We love having you.

Rebecca Heald: and I’ve really appreciated the time in the conversation.

Matt Vance: Thank You Rebecca.