Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Welcome everyone. Today’s episode is all about good management. We’re going to explore what it takes to be an exceptional people leader with expert Jill Felska. So Jill, thanks for being here with us today.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): Thank you for having me. This is a delight.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): It’s a delight for us too. So Jill Felska (Guest) is the founder of want to work there and the creator of training for the modern manager. She spent the last 15 years learning everything under the sun about building better workplace cultures and is on a neverending mission to get practical, actionable tools into the hands of as many passionate culture creators as possible. I love that mission. That is so cool.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): It’s one that I have just never failed. So continues to live on.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): So tell us a little bit more about yourself and what led you to get to this point.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): Yeah. So I think all of us have unfortunately had a horror story at some point in our career.
 

 
Jill Felska (Guest): Um mine just happened to be right when I graduated college and it was so impactful that it ended up changing the complete trajectory of my career. And so uh I went from thinking I was going to be doing fashion PR uh to thinking uh that that was just not for me anymore. And I knew that there was a deeper piece for me around like how do we create better workplace environments because I was so shocked by what I experienced even in 2009. Um I just kept thinking how is this

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): What’s this?

 

Jill Felska (Guest): Isn’t this the 70s like how this is still happening? So that’s what really led me to my career as is. And I’ve done a lot of different things over that time. I’ve been in the house as a head of people. I’ve been an entrepreneur and started a couple companies. Um but everything that I have done has really come back to this idea of how do we really create better workplaces. Um, I think the biggest shift for me that I probably wouldn’t have believed if you had told me five years ago was that a big part of what I focus on now is people management.
 
 
Jill Felska (Guest): Um, and I really had spent so many years focused on large organizational change and how do we change things from the top down and I think there is so much that can be done and is impactful coming from that angle without question. Um, but everything that I did kept bringing me down this path to people managers. Um because at the end of the day there is

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): It hurts.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): no one no one that has a bigger impact on an employee’s experience than their direct people manager.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): So true.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): Yeah. It’s just the lever that I thought okay this is where I can create the biggest impact. So that’s where I am now.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. And obviously you’ve been affected by that throughout your experiences and that’s why it probably what kept leading you back to it. And anyone that’s ever worked which I would say is most everybody most adults anybody that’s worked in more of like a larger company organization they’ve experienced this firsthand whether it’s been positive or negative how impactful it is to them.
 
  
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): And so I think that’s such an amazing mission. And to all our listeners, Jill is

 

Jill Felska (Guest): totally

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): coming through really clear. And if you’re not on video, you’ll have to check out if she has this incredible microphone in front of her and kind of a cool story about it if you want to share that.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): uh they were complimenting me on my microphone and I said the only reason I have this very cool microphone setup is because like four years ago uh this podcaster by the name of Pat Flynn did a call for people who have been sitting on a podcast idea for a long time to start their podcast And so I did and threw my name in the running thinking nothing of it. He was a really big deal. Uh and I ended up winning to my complete surprise and delight. And so now I have this very fancy microphone set up courtesy of Pepin. So thank you Pat.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): I’m not surprised at all that you went won though. like you have this amazing personality and really your voice does come in so great.
 
 
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): So anyways, I just thought that was kind of a fun little side story, but yeah. And what’s the name of your podcast? Because people may want to go check it out. Yeah, we’ll link to it for sure.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): Yes, it has been on hiatus for a short while, but there is some there’s some wonderful episodes in there. Uh, it’s called Want to Work there. So, same as the company.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah,

 

Jill Felska (Guest): Um,

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): perfect.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): And yeah. Yeah, it’s there’s some gems. I’ve had some awesome people on there, but it’s fun to be on this side of the

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): That’s

 

Jill Felska (Guest): microphone,

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): so cool.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): too.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah, that’s amazing. Yeah, we’re excited to get more into the conversation. And so I guess let’s start out with what is the cost of poor people management to a business? Yeah, I know everyone’s heard the saying like people don’t quit jobs, they quit managers, right? And I think that’s kind of reflective of this, but um from your perspective, like what’s the business case for making sure we have good people leaders?
 
 
Jill Felska (Guest): I love this question and I love that this is the focus of your podcast because for so many years I mean I I do the work I do because I believe it is the right thing and I believe that creating better work environments is we should do it because we should do it. And I learned really early on that um real change always comes down to the bottom line whether we like to admit it or not. And so being able to articulate how these things to some people can feel more fluffy or um you know feel good uh really do impact a business’s bottom line. I just think it’s so impactful. So, um, the two that I think are always the biggest focus areas, one, and you already spoke to it, is retention.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Mhm.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): People do not quit jobs, they quit managers. Um, you know, there’s always going to be variances to that. Um, but like I said, a good manager can really shield and protect an employee from a pretty toxic culture.
 

 
Jill Felska (Guest): And the opposite can also be true. A bad manager can make a

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Thank you.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): really positive work environment, a place that someone doesn’t want to be. So when you think about retention, the cost of hiring, the cost of recruiting, the cost of training, and all of those pieces, especially when it comes to your high performers and people that you are especially dedicated to keeping in your team, um then the cost is high. The cost is real without question.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): Yeah. And then I think the other thing that um I think about a lot so McKenzie has been doing research for years on the importance of people managers and organizations. There’s a lot out there about psychological safety. Um and when teams have psychological safety which is usually driven by the people lead for that team. Um there is a ton more creativity there is more safety in them taking risks. Um there is more innovation. Um, but in 2023, and I can, I’ll send you the link.
 

 
Jill Felska (Guest): You guys can link to it. Um, they actually came out with really strong qualitative and quantitative data around the fact that over a 5-year period, good management impacts the bottom line of a company’s return. So, um, I won’t get into the nerdy math stuff, but um, it, you know, it’s it’s cool to I love when people tie things that are more high level to something that is really specific and tangible and and that someone can take to their CEO or their leadership team and say, “Here, Mackenzie said it.”

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): It is true. Boom.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): Yeah. Not

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): that they’re the end- all beall, but they have the money to

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): do the research.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. They have

 

Jill Felska (Guest): So,

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): some good info for sure and that is the point of this podcast like the bottom line you know and with without the buying of the leaders and funding these things you know you’re not going to make much progress and obviously every individual leader has their own like they can choose to be influential and be a good person but if they don’t have that training then they’re ill-equipped to be the manager that they could be for sure.
 
 
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): So yeah. Yeah. So Jill, you know, there are so many different types of people out there, you know, different managers with different personalities and leadership types. I don’t think there’s like one cookie cutter perfect manager. So like in your opinion, what characteristics do good managers have in common?

 

Jill Felska (Guest): Yeah. No, there there absolutely

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Mhm.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): is not. And as you guys know, like different cultures and different types of companies call for different types of management styles, but um there’s a couple things I think that really go across all managers. And I think it’s especially true now in the modern work environment that we’re in. Um but for me first and foremost emotional intelligence. So

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Mhm.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): uh there is nothing more impactful than someone being in a management position that has high emotional intelligence. And one of the things that was I think most surprising to me when I was creating my management training curriculum was that it’s actually something that is learnable and teachable.
 

 
Jill Felska (Guest): I

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Mhm.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): I think a lot of us tend to think someone either has it or they don’t.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Right.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): And uh yeah, there’s so much you can do. And I will I’ll just say for people who like a definition uh you know, emotional intelligence is really the ability to recognize, understand, and manage your own emotions while also being aware of and then effectively responding to the emotions of

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): brush.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): others. So your team members. So when you think of it that way, it’s like, oh 

yeah, I can learn and grow in that area. I can learn to better be aware of my

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Perfect.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): emotions, to regulate my emotions, to tune into how my team is

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Christmas.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): feeling, to pick up on those body signals and those cues. Um, when that exists, big big strong endorsement because, uh, it makes a world of difference. Um, I think the next thing for me is really it all comes down to ego at the end of the day.
 

Jill Felska (Guest): Um, I think really successful modern managers are not concerned with being the smartest person in the room. And we can talk a little bit about the shift that’s happened in management from like the industrial revolution to the knowledge era and sort of how that’s impacted management. At the end of the day, um, with AI and all of the resources that we have available to us, a manager’s job isn’t to be a specialist in the same way that it used to be. A manager’s job is to know uh, coach and support, you know, the growth and the um, risktaking and the innovation of other team members. And so, in order to do that, you have to be okay with other people having answers that you don’t have. And it really comes down to the ego piece of why do I feel like I need to be the smartest person in the room? That’s not the important piece here. Um so yeah, and then the third um for me is curiosity. If you are someone who is curious as a manager, it is going to serve you for the rest of your life because um you are going to listen more.
 
  
Jill Felska (Guest): You’re going to ask questions. You are going to be open to changing your viewpoint on things. Um I think overall like it’s just one of the best characteristics you can hire for in a manager in all honesty. So yeah, those are some of the ones that I think kind of go across the board. It’s not about introverts, extroverts, you know, yada yada yada. Here are the kind of personality traits and behaviors that you can look for.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): I like your perspective of curiosity. I think I would probably label it a growth mindset. Somebody

 

Jill Felska (Guest): Yes.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): that’s like ready to learn and and grow. And that to me and someone like that can really learn anything. Emotional intelligence, they can change, they can become better. And I mean, I think that’s such a good tool for hiring somebody. Just do they have that ma mindset that they have a lot to learn and gain or are they like I’m I’m the best and like you’ve got nothing that you could do for me or whatever.
 
  
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Right. So

 

Jill Felska (Guest): Yes. And it’s such a simple behavioral interview question. Like, what’s the last thing you’ve been curious about?

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): yeah.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): Someone who is a curious person is going to be like, “Let me tell you this stamp collection from the 1980s.” You’re going to be like, I don’t even think they had stamps back then. I don’t know where that came from in my crazy brain, but that’s apparently where I went.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Well, I went to black holes curious about black holes, so I don’t. You know, that’s true. Everybody has something, right?

 

Jill Felska (Guest): Everybody’s got the Roman Empire.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): It’s

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. Love that. So, Matt mentioned a little bit about how it doesn’t have, you know, different personalities, you can still have good leaders in any kind of personalities and also then industries. So what might look similar or different with a good leader in different industries? How might that look different?

 

Jill Felska (Guest): Yeah, it’s a great question.
 
 
Jill Felska (Guest): I am at the end of the day, well, the one thing I will say is people are people. So regardless of the industry or the type of work you’re doing, um there are always going to be people focused on traits and behaviors and things that will across the board be the same. Uh I think where the major shift comes for me is

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Foreign

 

Jill Felska (Guest): actually what I was referring to before, which is um management really was built in the industrial revolution. I’m going to get nerdy on you here for a second. Um so uh the product of the industrial revolution is hey we’re making widgets we’re making plates I need you to make x amount of plates per hour um that is what our output is and so the person who is the manager was the person who had the most experience and understanding and training around how you run the machine how do you get the plates out into the world in the most efficient manner. Um and it was knowledge that not everybody on the line had.
 
  
Jill Felska (Guest): And so that was really what management’s role was was almost to command and control the situation from both a safety perspective uh and from a knowledge perspective. Fast forward absolutely manufacturing is still a major thing. Um, and

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah,

 

Jill Felska (Guest): we also have this whole new space of knowledge work. Um, and this, you know, like I was saying earlier, ability with AI and and just with all the resourcing that now exists on the internet, um, that information is much more at your fingertips and things are changing fast. So, so, so fast. We’re all tired. At least I am. I don’t know about everybody else. I’m tired.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Oh yeah, I I feel

 

Jill Felska (Guest): Everybody’s

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): it too.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): tired. Um, but what that brings with it is kind of what I was saying. Like your manager isn’t always going to be the most specialist, the smartest in the most specialized area in the room. I

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Mhm.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): don’t think I said that well, but you I think you get what I’m saying.
 
 
Jill Felska (Guest): They’re not going to be the one with the most specialized knowledge, which is what the case was when the industrial revolution was prioritizing that for management. Um, and so what we focus on, especially in our training, is sort of this shift from command and control, micromanagement, I have all the answers, this is how you do it, to what is a coaching style approach to management? How do you create space for people to get to their own answers?

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Okay.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): How do you help them become better problem solvers? How do you help them grow in ways that feel beyond their capacity to themselves? Um, and what does that look like? And

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Okay.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): I think there will always be space for coaching style management in a modern workplace. Period. And it’s a skill that we all have to learn. And there are always going to be industries in which command and control scenarios are important. Uh and I’ll give you two examples. One uh is like you really don’t want your brain surgeon like hoping that he has enough information to do your surgery that day.
 
  
Jill Felska (Guest): Like there is no reason that there’s like a very specific checklist process when someone is going through brain surgery and that they practice on nonhumans for a very very very very very long time. Like there’s a lot of control in that scenario and how things are done.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Radio.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): Um you know very different than hey I’ve got this idea for a

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Foreign

 

Jill Felska (Guest): marketing campaign. Um and instead as a manager you’re not coming in and saying oh my gosh this is how I did it last time. It’s like you’re creating space for them to sort of answer their own questions. Um and I think and I will say this was an interesting thing. The more tech companies we have worked with, the more room I have created in my own understanding and empathy around the need for command and control style management in some circumstances because of how fast things move. So coaching takes time. It just does. It is faster for you to tell someone how to do a thing.
 
 
Jill Felska (Guest): And I think um that nuanced understanding in today’s world, like I said, we’re moving so fast of what is the right moment for a coaching style approach and when is the right moment for and I hate this term, but a command and control is the way that it gets talked about

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): style approach, a directive approach. Um there’s nuance there. It’s not all one or the other. So that’s I think another piece of it as well.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. Well, thank you for validating everybody out there that we’re tired and that things are moving too fast.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): I just want a nap.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): That’s

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Seriously.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): the general thought every day.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Well, we’re recording this episode on a Friday, so cruising into the weekend here pretty soon. Yeah.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): This

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): But

 

Jill Felska (Guest): is

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): I you know, one one thing of where my mind went with um like giving people space to have creativity. Obviously, as you said, there are different types of roles in different types of companies and industries, but um I’ve done a lot of engagement surveys, employee engagement surveys, and I’ve certainly seen micromanagement mentioned as a negative and empowerment mentioned as a positive where people feel trusted and respected as a person and as an expert in their realm um to be able to bring new ideas.
 
 
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): And the person in the room that has the most energy behind an idea is the one that has that idea. So if we can foster ideas, then there’s going to be more energy behind those ideas that can then create value for a business. Now, to your point, you know, if it’s we’re talking about a a meat processing plant, yeah, we have to be people managers, we have to be on the ball with safety protocol and other things where it’s like there’s no room for creativity of how you should wear your safety glasses and your equipment, right? It’s like you need to do certain things certain ways. Um and and I think uh that is a good manager to ensure compliance with certain things but it’s about you know emotional intelligence to your point and caring for the individual. You can say hey you put your safety glasses on right you can say that in a kind way or an unkind way you know so there’s delivery of communications and how we make people feel regardless of if there’s a high creativity or a low creativity environment based on work.
 
 
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): But yeah, those are just kind of some thoughts I had just kind of feeling what you’re sharing here.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): Autonomy in the workplace is one of my favorite topics. And I think um one of the reasons autonomy as a concept is so hard for managers is that um managers are held responsible for results and then when they’re not in charge of doing the work anymore,

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Uhhuh.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): there is this tension between I know I am responsible for these results that happen. So, how much comfort do I have in letting go that these

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): results are going to happen and that I believe in what? And it’s just a hard rub. So, it like makes sense why we hold on as managers because we’re like, we really want the thing to turn out how it’s supposed to turn out and

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): the growth is that you are putting the right people in place and allowing them space to make mistakes, to stumble, to learn, to grow. Um, and and I think that’s where that autonomy piece comes in is like how are we learning to give people enough space um to run with our ideas when we can at times feel like at the end of the day it’s it’s our name on the line
 
  
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yep. You’re absolutely right. And I think you are hitting it from the right angle, you know, the right perspective here, starting with the leaders directly. And I think you’re going to have a great impact down that lane. And uh so I wanted to ask kind of in closing here if you could give some final advice for our listeners just what are some for especially for managers. So what are some ways that they can improve their leadership skills and where should they start?

 

Jill Felska (Guest): Yeah, there’s so many places to start. I’m always a big book nerd. If you’re watching this, you can see all the This is my like cold down book collection here. Um the rest are shoved in corners and random

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): All

 

Jill Felska (Guest): places.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): right.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): So, I have always been that nerd that’s like, “Give me the book. I want the book. plan get I’m gonna read the book on management training or management whatever when I was 23 on the weekends because I was that nerd.
 
 
Jill Felska (Guest): Not everybody’s that nerd. Um that said, I think there are a couple key mindset shifts that I think managers can lean into that are really really helpful. So there’s there is a ton of wonderful incredible knowledge out there if you’re a manager, podcast, books, everything to lean into from a tactical

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): actual

 

Jill Felska (Guest): perspective. Um, I think the biggest thing I would say that could be impactful for managers from a mindset perspective, uh, is understanding when you step into a people manager role, uh, that you are essentially moving from being a player on the field to a coach on the sidelines. Granted, there is a whole another podcast episode about how we don’t create enough space for managers to manage. they’re doing way too much individual contributor work uh that they shouldn’t

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Right.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): be responsible

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Right.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): for now. But uh let’s say in a perfect world where managers have been given space to manage um it’s a hard shift for a lot of us for most of us because we spent our entire a lot of us who are um achievers who take a lot of pride in our career who have invested a lot into our career um we’ve spent everything from grade school through college through up until that point in our job it was about
 
 
Jill Felska (Guest): what you did what you contributed the work that you did

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Thank you.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): And now you’re having to redefine what success is. Success isn’t the work that you did yourself. It is the success of the work the people on your team did. And it’s a really hard shift for us as humans. Yeah. Because we’re so used to it, I turned the thing in, the thing did well, hooray, I did it.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): I grade. Yeah.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): Exactly. And honestly, when you are a great manager, you are shining the accolades back on your team. So, it’s like these people who have gone for the majority of their career as being high achievers and receiving lots of praise and recognition and validation are now stepping into this role where ultimately if you’re doing it really well, you’re more focused on getting validation for your team members and for their wins and for their um so it’s it’s a mindset shift and I think it’s just something to remember. Um you know, you’re ideally not a player on the field anymore.
 
  
Jill Felska (Guest): You’re a coach on the sidelines. Um, so what can you think about from a coach’s perspective on how to get people to where they need to be? Um, and then I think, you know, just keep investing in self-awareness and growth. There is so much value in that. The more growth you do as a human, the more you’re going to be able to excel in a management role um, without question. And I think the last thing and this is I guess this is more tactical. Uh if you are emotional and you are needing to have a hard conversation, punt it. It is one of the best pieces of advice that I was given by a mentor a long time ago. Um if you are exhausted,

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): exhausting.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): if you are emotional, if you are whatever and you have to have a hard conversation, whatever that is, move it to Monday. It is for the next day or the week, you know. And is it great to shift calls and move?
 
  
Jill Felska (Guest): No, absolutely not. This is not an all the time thing. But I have learned that the conversation is always going to go better if you are in a regulated space than if you are in

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): a tired or emotional space. and

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): the benefit that is going to come from having that conversation regulated versus the small inconvenience or the frustration of you moving it down the road. It’s always going to balance out in the other direction. So

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Man,

 

Jill Felska (Guest): this

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): that makes so much sense. It’s like, you know, an athlete getting ready to go out on the field

 

Jill Felska (Guest): yes

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): to perform. Now, a people leader has that same type of need to kind of warm up and be ready for performance if there’s especially something uh big or impactful. So that man, I’ve never heard it so clearly. So I Yeah, you must be a football fan. You’re using lots of sorts analogies

 

Jill Felska (Guest): You
 
 
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): there.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): know what the irony of all of this is? If I do not do sports. Like I’m I’m that human that owns the shirt that’s like to go sports because like I couldn’t tell you. I have no idea. But I just know that coaching is impactful and that you know. Yeah. For someone who is not a sports person, I do use a lot of sports.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): That is awful. That’s so funny. But really, you hit it on the head. I I love that having a mindset shift, focusing on your employees, getting the accolades and then, you know, having a space to and and advocating for yourself to have a space for management and, you know, if you don’t have that right now, adv advocate to have that because that can be huge in in your endeavors to be manager and and I love it. Everything you said was so good. So good today. So really good. Yeah.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): Thank you.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Thank you so much, Jill.
 
 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): And to our listeners, we’ll include a link to her podcast. So, check it out and what she’s doing and check out her management training. It’ll surely help you in your management and pass it on to the managers around you. And don’t forget to leave us a review and check out our next episode. And anything else you want to say, Matt? Yeah. Is there anything Jill um that you would say to a company or people manager that’s listening to how they can get help from you? Like I think people need it if they want to get in touch with you directly. What’s the best way to do that?

 

Jill Felska (Guest): Yeah, that’s a great question. Um, we can definitely link on, you know, in the episode. It’s it’s want to work there.com/management training is our program. Um, what I’ll just say is I built I built the thing that I wanted in my last head of people role. Um, and it really comes down to accessibility.
 
  
Jill Felska (Guest): Um, management training is for absolutely valid reasons an expensive field to invest in. Uh, and I’ve lived my life in the startup space

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Christmas.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): and I just felt like there was this gap of smaller companies who were able to invest in those training tools earlier on so that it became a foundation instead of something you were trying to fix later on. So, if that sounds like you and you’ve been priced out of the management training market, um definitely go give it a look. But yeah, I’ll also drop some resources. We have like a bunch of great stuff on like the four things you should think about before you invest in management training. Um

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Nice.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): So there’s a lot you can do that doesn’t involve a you know a cost even right now. Um

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): we’ll drop that too. And then um I guess the last thing I’ll leave, we are gearing up to do this summer a series of around making the case. So, one of the hardest things in the people ops world, I mean, and there are so many, uh, is being able to make a business case for the thing that you want to do. Uh, and so we’re going to do a series with people in different areas who are doing really cool things, whether it’s around comp or management trainer, these different things, and then their perspective on how you make the business case for

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Okay.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): um, for doing that in your organization. I appreciate that. Given what

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Oh,

 

Jill Felska (Guest): you guys

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): yeah.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): care about, so

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): if that’s something they’re interested in, we can. I’ll get you guys a link for that too. Well, we’ll

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Fantastic.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): get them signed up.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Sounds great. Thank you so much still. That’s a great conversation today. Yeah, thanks everyone for listening, really appreciate your time and yeah, thank you Jill.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): Thanks so much. It

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Sounds

 

Jill Felska (Guest): is so fun.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): good. We’ll see it.

 

Jill Felska (Guest): Bye.