Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Welcome everyone to today’s episode on the culture profit. The intro today is not rewritten. I’m just going off the cuff here because we’ve got a special edition episode and it deserves just a more conversational tone. We actually have Zack Crane joining us who recently joined the Mobrium team as the head of sales and we actually worked together at a previous company for years and then we had this incredible opportunity to join forces the timing of everything lined up and Zach is actually a veteran for the US military and we wanted to talk to him about his experience especially as we’re just about to celebrate Veterans Day.
 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): So, Zach, thanks for joining us.

Zac Crane (Guest): Yeah, thanks so much for having me on, Matt and Christa. Good to see you virtually and in person. And uh yeah, a little nervous, but super happy to be here.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. And for those who don’t know Zach, I’m going to share a little bit more about him and his background. So, Zach grew up in Boise, Idaho, where sports and service shaped much of his early life. After playing football and serving an LDS mission, he graduated from Utah State University and committee and was commissioned as an explosive ordnance disposal officer in the US Army. This experience taught him how to stay calm under pressure, lead through uncertainty, and solve complex problems quickly. When his time in uniform ended, Zach chose to focus on his family and establish roots back in beautiful Cash Valley. His love of people and problem solving naturally led him into SAS cells where he discovered a new passion for helping organizations address real challenges with simple and meaningful solutions. And he’s only one semester away from completing his MBA at Utah State University.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): That’s awesome.

Zac Crane (Guest): that way. Thanks.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. So, Zach, you know, we worked together at a previous company years ago, and I distinctly remember when you announced you were leaving and that you were going from working at this manufacturing business, you know, doing sales and going into the military. So, like tell us about how that came to be and why like why you did that.

Zac Crane (Guest): Yeah, kind of a crazy story. Um, you should get my wife to tell her side, but so how it all occurred is I have to take a couple steps back. So I got married pretty young, right after my LDS mission. And I told my wife, I was like, “Hey, I’m joining the military. Like, I don’t know what I’m going to do yet, but I’m doing it.” and she was like, “That’s awesome. After you graduate college.” So, I was like, “Okay, I can do that, I think.” Right? Books were never my thing.
 

Zac Crane (Guest): But, so because of her, I went to college, which was a good thing, don’t get me wrong. Uh, graduated, and then once I graduated, it is when I got the job working with you at the manufacturing uh job. And then there was just something that was eating at me, and I just couldn’t really put my finger on it. I was a volunteer firefighter for the city and I was like, “Man, I think I’m fulfilling this itch, but I kind of wasn’t.” So, one day I skipped work. I went into the recruiting office here and talked to the Army recruiter and I went home that night and I said, “Hey babe, I’m joining the army.” And she said, “I know.” And that was just shocking to me.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Wow.

Zac Crane (Guest): And I was like, “What do you mean you know?” She’s like, “I’ve been feeling that you’re going to do this for a long time. So, now that you’ve committed to it, you better do it before I change my mind.” So,
 

Zac Crane (Guest): That’s kind of the story. And there’s a lot more to it. Like, I had a real job, right? Like, I wasn’t struggling like you hear some of these people were. Um, I had a great job, loved my job, loved the people, right? It was a great place to be at. Um, but really it is kind of a cliche thing. I really just wanted to serve what it comes down to. uh had a three-year-old daughter, had to take out a loan to go to basic training because we had real money and real bills to pay. And when you enlist as an E4 in the army starting off, it’s not a lot of money. So, I gradually worked my way up, went to OCS, Officer Candidate School, which is where I earned a commission to become an officer eventually.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Oh, wow.

Zac Crane (Guest): So,

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Holy cow. Wow. That’s such a cool story. And props to your wife for being so supportive. That would be a hard one for sure.

 Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): And you kind of did things. We’ve talked about this previously since we know you and everything, but just for those listening that you kind of did things backwards. Like most people, they do the military when they get out of high school and then they use that to pay for their schooling and everything and you’re like, “Okay, I’ve got my degree and I got a stable job and now let’s go to the military.” So,

Zac Crane (Guest): There’s a common theme in my life. Truly, I do everything the hardest way possible and the most way. I don’t think it must be a personality trait. It has to be. But yeah, truly I was grinding through college. I worked full-time, was married, halfway through had a kid. I was a volunteer firefighter and going to school full-time, right? I was just doing everything I could to just make ends meet and put food on the table for my little family.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

Zac Crane (Guest): And I had these friends at the same time who were in ROC, which I didn’t do, but their bills were paid.

 Zac Crane (Guest): They had a good steady income. They were kind of having a good life. I wouldn’t say the good life, but they did it the right way. So, yes, I did it the wrong way. I did everything the hard way. I got out and then joined, having paid for my own degree. Um, but you know, that’s not why I joined, right? And I think that was, you know, the passion behind it was more like I wanted to serve.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Right. No. And and I will say I I attest that it is I think it is part of your personality because I can tell you’re someone that is not just not going to shy away from a challenge, but that

Zac Crane (Guest): Like it’s not about a free college degree, right? Like I genuinely wanted to go do something different. So

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): you are one that’s like to give me challenges. I want to push myself. I want to grow. And I’m sure that contributed to your decision to join the military.

 Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): and I and very honorable choice to make, but especially for those reasons that you had that itch, that need to serve our country. It’s awesome.

Zac Crane (Guest): I thank you for saying all those things. Um, yeah, I was a little bit of a sacrifice on my end, but really I got to put a plug in for my wife. Like, she went through the entire process having known this civilian world and how good it was. A lot of these military wives, not a lot, but some, right? They only know the military, but my wife knew the other side and then joined and still stuck with me.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Right.

Zac Crane (Guest): So like that, like your props off to all the military spouses, I would say, for sticking with them because I mean, we kind of joke, but it’s kind of true.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yes.

Zac Crane (Guest): She was a single mom for the better portion of five and a half years because I just wasn’t there. So yeah.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. Yeah. She’s amazing, too.
 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): You guys are both amazing. It’s honestly intense. And I think a lot of us sometimes we’re out of touch with how much sacrifice is made to maintain and preserve our freedoms in the US. Like we were talking about this a little bit earlier in the office, the show Food Tech, which you can find on Netflix where Prime Prime or Oh, sorry, Amazon Prime.

Zac Crane (Guest): Yeah.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Sorry Netflix.

Zac Crane (Guest): This is

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): But it shows how food is made. Tabasco sauce, uh, you know, hot dogs, like all these different foods and it shows you how much goes into it, the technology and the work of individuals in that industry. And I think a lot of us get removed from where our food comes from. We just eat it. You know, it’s like, oh, I want I want a hamburger. Boom. Hamburger right there. You go through the drive-thru, it’s there. And so we can take that for advantage. And myself included, for granted.
 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. And yeah, for granted. And I think the same thing often happens with the freedoms and liberties we enjoy in this country that we’re removed from the amount of effort, technology, sacrifice, time, resources that are invested from our fellow citizens here in the US and the government. And regardless of what, you know, political persuasion you have, there are real people that are behind protecting our our freedoms. And I think that needs to be recognized and and honored. So tell us a little bit more about Yeah. what it was like. Yeah.

Zac Crane (Guest): Yeah. Yeah. And just just on your point like there are real people like Yeah. I was in for this much time compared to a lot of people. Some people are 20 -25-30 years old. And when you talk about sacrifice, genuine sacrifice of an entire lifetime some of these men and women are putting in. I did not do that. I did. I chose not to do that because I’m not tough enough mentally, but that is what it comes down to.
 

Zac Crane (Guest): But some people can. So seriously, like ditto to everything you just said. Um you said tell me just a little bit general more about internally.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. Just Yeah. Just generally what Yeah. what your time was like in the military and how that was for your family.

Zac Crane (Guest): Yeah. Yeah. So, let’s see. Like I said, I took an atypical route. So, I technically, well, not technically, I enlisted first, which some of your listeners may know what that means, but there’s enlisted and officers. Enlisted are kind of they’re more the doers, and the officers are more the managers, what you could say. Um, so I enlisted first as an E4, which is just your normal soldier, which was really fun and a great experience because I got to be I joined when I was 26 and some of these literal kids were 18 years old and the drill sergeants were my same age, right?

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Wow.

Zac Crane (Guest): So, it’s like a weird power, not power dynamic, but weird dynamic where like we were kind of the same age as the people yelling at me.

Zac Crane (Guest): It was kind of funny. Um, I joined BA, I did basic training. The hottest day of my life was July 31st in Fort Benning, Georgia. I will never forget that I felt sweat dripping down my shins and I was like I mean I played a little bit of college football and I remember thinking my shins have never sweat before.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Humidity.

Zac Crane (Guest): Um it was just crazy like what you see in the humidity and they’re yelling at you to make you do push-ups. It was a good experience. So did basic training in Georgia. Then after that immediately like literally walking to what’s called OCS officer candidate school. So it’s like I went from being an enlisted soldier straight over to the like fasttracked pipeline to become an officer. Um so which that’s essentially you redo basic training all over again with a little bit more leadership and a little bit more like general tactical skills that you would learn. So that was good. And then from there I went to a specialized well. From there I went to a basic officer leadership course which is where you go learn the basic basic skills of being an officer.
 

Zac Crane (Guest): Um again it’s a lot of planning. It’s a lot of public speaking. It’s a lot like creating these powerpoints because the army is really big on powerpoints. Um and then Yeah.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Didn’t know that.

Zac Crane (Guest): Right. Exactly. And then from there and you’ll see this is a lot of training. From there, I went to a specialized uh training. I was super blessed and lucky to have done well enough on some physical and some academic um tests and examinations to qualify for a specialized training which I really really wanted to do. And I wasn’t sure if I was going to get it or not, but I did that. And then that was a really intense school. Um, it was like a year-long school. You have to do this. The academic standards are held super high like in the army like usually the tests are pretty easy. These tests were not easy um just due to the nature of the job and that was really hard on my family because when I was in that like super rigorous training my second kid was born um Jack my son was born in the middle of that training which was crazy and then he was born February 20th 2020 so right as COVID was hitting.
 
 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Wow.

Zac Crane (Guest): So I was in this super crazy hard training. I had a son who was born and I didn’t really tell anybody and then um COVID hit. So I had a newborn and we couldn’t find diapers or toilet paper and I was stressed out about this like crazy training I was at.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Oh my goodness.

Zac Crane (Guest): Yeah, I almost got kicked out transparently. Like me because I failed a test. I had to go to what’s called an academic review board where they bring you in, they make you wear your dress blue and they like they just grill you. And I remember there were a couple people ahead of me and they came out in tears and I was like I’m done. Like there’s no way like I. I don’t know how to explain myself like there’s. I’m done with this dream of mine because to be in this specialized school is like a dream I had. And then I walked in there and then I think they were expecting me to make excuses. Um and I just told them exactly why I failed and I knew exactly what I did.
 

Zac Crane (Guest): And they kind of looked at me and they’re like, “All right, you get one more shot. Go back.” So from that point forward I was not allowed to fail another test and that was kind of towards the beginning. So every test was super stressful but made it through. Sorry that was probably more than you wanted but from there we had moved.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): No, no, that’s what that tells us a lot. And were you living here at that time or had you moved?

Zac Crane (Guest): Yeah. Yeah. So we were moving and I wasn’t really there.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Okay.

Zac Crane (Guest): But while I was at that school I got a call from where I was going to be going after I graduated if I graduated. And they said hey Lieutenant Crane hope you’re ready. We’re deploying within six months when you get here, so make sure you’re paying attention. Click. And I was like, “Oh, boy.” Okay.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Oh, wow.

Zac Crane (Guest): So, not not even fully graduated this training, I got a call saying, “We’re going to deploy when I get there so I’d be ready.”
 

Zac Crane (Guest): So, anyway, get there.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Wow.

Zac Crane (Guest): Um, and then, yeah, sure enough, six months later, I was in Iraq and I barely knew what I was doing in this specialized training, right? I was a new graduate of the training and I was leading a platoon of men and women uh overseas in Iraq who were attached to some special groups over there. So yeah, it was just crazy. Like I can’t believe how fast it went and how crazy it was.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): That is that is wild. And amidst all this, your wife is just holding down the fort at home. You’re on the front lines. She’s holding down the fort, right?

Zac Crane (Guest): Yeah. Yeah. She’s quite literally doing everything. I mean, you don’t think of the little things, right? She’s paying the bills. She’s getting groceries. She’s getting the mail. She’s mowing the lawn. It’s like the little things. She’s making sure my truck gets started so it works when I get back.

 Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

Zac Crane (Guest): It’s little things that I didn’t even realize were important till we were in the thick of it. So, yeah, she’s truly the mom and the dad while I’m gone. So,

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. Yeah. But it takes a lot of a joint effort to make all that happen from a family perspective, which is um amazing that you guys did all of that. So, I am curious, Zach. Um, so you were in the military for this time. You did a lot of really cool things. You got to tell us at least one crazy story. Obviously nothing top secret, but then I want to hear how it was transitioning back to civilian work because I’m sure there are a lot of veterans listening that are going through that experience as well as companies looking at hiring uh veterans and maybe there are some stigmas around that of like oh well they don’t have experience in this work so you know like what is that like navigating that Nice.

Zac Crane (Guest): Yeah.
 
 

Zac Crane (Guest): Yeah. So, one crazy story that comes to mind, we were overseas in the Middle East, right, doing whatever we do. And we it was me and my teammate, my partner, whatever. I don’t know what the civilian equivalent would call it, but we were in a little Toyota Hilux, just the two of us. When I was over there, things weren’t what you imagine. Like, it was crazy. Early 2000s. It’s not like that crazy right now. So, I never want to inflate what I did. So, it was just me and him. And we were on this road and our interpreter or a linguist, sorry. We were on this road um in Iraq and we were driving down it and this other vehicle had a bunch of dudes in the back and we’re on the freeway and they had their guns and you know looked like maybe what you would think a scary person would look like and they drive in front of us and I was like that’s kind of interesting.
 

 
Zac Crane (Guest): And I asked my linguist I was like are these good guys or bad guys? And I’ll never forget what he said today: good guy tomorrow, maybe bad guy. And uh you know I’ve always thought about that. And then the linguist explained to me because I was kind of ignorant. He was like hey they see you as another tribe. Like they don’t necessarily see you as the enemy like right now, right? Maybe you’re good with them right now, but maybe next month there’ll be a tribal conflict and then you’re fighting against each other. So, it’s just interesting the concept of just like tribes and how he made it seem like you’re not always enemies, right?

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Wow.

Zac Crane (Guest): You can be friends and then not friends. So, yeah, it was very interesting.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Interesting, huh?

Zac Crane (Guest): Yeah, very eye opening for me too.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. you I’m sure you had lots of cultural experiences everywhere you went. I mean, so that’s really neat.

Zac Crane (Guest): For sure.
 

Zac Crane (Guest): And then this the other question was segueing from that back to the real world.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. Just like why you got into sales and what it’s like I mean do you feel like you experienced trauma and it has how’s that affected you? That’s a good question. Getting back into it because I think that would be maybe the stigma that employers might have of hiring a veteran. I mean, I’m sure they think these guys are really tough, these women are really tough, but they might be carrying some trauma from the experiences that they’ve had. And so, what’s something you’ve done to navigate that? And how did you ease yourself back into the real world of just going to a job and you know? So yeah.

Zac Crane (Guest): Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So, again, I know I know brave men and women who have experienced actual trauma. I wouldn’t say I’ve experienced true trauma like they I I know some literal heroes like is what I’m saying. I wouldn’t say I have that.
 

Zac Crane (Guest): I would say one thing that was hard was I was trained or maybe conditioned to just think about the worst case scenario all the time. Always be on the lookout, right? Always be looking over your shoulder. So that is still I would say I’ve been out a couple years is still kind of hard, right? to shake that.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

Zac Crane (Guest): Like when I’m going out to dinner with my family and we’re sitting down, do I need to always be, is it even healthy mentally to be thinking about like what’s the worst possible situation here? Like I don’t think that’s healthy.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

Zac Crane (Guest): So I would say I still have a little bit of that. Um but not probably the trauma that maybe some people would expect, right? Like I said, when I was overseas, it wasn’t when it was like high opto. So yeah.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): What’s that?

Zac Crane (Guest): And then when it comes to transitioning back and why I chose sales, it’s kind of a loaded question, but um let’s see why I chose sales.
 

 
Zac Crane (Guest): I always tell people like sales was my game plan. It wasn’t a backup plan. I think a lot of people view salesmen kind of like gross, because there’s a lot of gross salesmen out there. But I chose it because I mean there’s a couple reasons. Um, it’s hard, right? Going back to the beginning, I do like doing hard things because when you accomplish it, there’s nothing better than being successful at something, right? So, you have like little micro successes in sales, which would be closing a deal or helping someone save up a pain point. So, that’s fun. I genuinely like talking to people. Like, I really do. I love talking and meeting new people and seeing where they’re from and what their problems are. And then I do like helping them find a solution to a problem. Right, Matt, you’ve been on calls with me. Like I’ll tell people sometimes at the beginning like I’m not sure if this is right for you, but by the end of the call, we’ll know and I’ll tell you if we should move forward or not.
 

Zac Crane (Guest): Right? So having that consultative like um if we can help you, great. If not, let’s be friends and I’ll talk to you when the timing is better. So yeah, that’s why I like sales right now. It’s been a lot of fun.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah, you’re kind of I heard it. This is kind of a side note, but when we first got married, we moved to California and did summer sales uh pest control door to door. Yeah. And I don’t know why this just brought me back to that, but we were doing training and one of the top salesmen. He was like just the most kind, genuine person. And he said, “I always just try to approach it like a doctor. I’m just like, do you have bug problems? How can I help, you know, with those bug bug problems?” And so, I think that’s kind of that consultative role that you take on. And I think you’re a very genuine person that cares about people and helps them find solutions to the things that they’re struggling with.
 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): So

Zac Crane (Guest): Yes, for sure. And yeah, that’s a great example like being like a doctor almost asking questions and how to diagnose it. Um, you also asked if you also mentioned Christa like people who view military people as these super strong scary guys. The funniest, most down-to-earth people that I’ve ever met were some of the most hardcore guys you might meet in the military. Like they had these personalities where and again I wasn’t part of that era. Like it just wasn’t the uptempo that I experienced. But like there are some people who you would meet them like ready to go. You’d be like, “Oh, you’re scared.”

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): No. Yeah.

Zac Crane (Guest): But then if you like to have lunch or dinner with their family, you’d be like, “This is the coolest guy I’ve ever met. Super funny.” Like I think to do some of those things, you have to just be able to laugh a lot, especially at yourself and make exactly

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): It counteracts the heart a little bit. Yeah.
 

 Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): You’ve got to be able to be comfortable in your own skin, but be ready to go when it’s game time. And yeah, I think that’s a very important skill to have. And uh yeah, really cool that I I I think it’s really cool of you. You know, this wasn’t kind of planned, but how you created a group on Facebook for veterans to just connect and find shared experiences and just have that camaraderie. I think um that’s also something that’s really cool that you’ve done. So, has that been a helpful thing for you? And does it seem like it’s been helpful for those who’ve connected there?

Zac Crane (Guest): Yeah, like like I’ve kind of alluded to a couple times, like I I don’t feel like I have a ton of these issues or problems that maybe some um companies attach or stigmatize veterans, right? But I do know that exists and I do know people that struggle a lot. And so when I moved back here, I kind of looked for little veterans groups just to see if I could volunteer somewhere or do something and they’re kind of a lot.
 

 
Zac Crane (Guest): So made this group for the valley and it kind of blew up. I was shocked at how many veterans live in our little country town. But it’s been super cool. There’s no way I tell the group like there’s no rules and there’s no initiative here. I like to meet people, go fishing, say who wants to meet us here and go work out. Uh we go to dinner every once in a while. So yeah, just little things like that because I think the shared experiences sometimes mean we have Vietnam veterans in the group so it’s fun to talk to them and are way different than anything I’ve experienced, right?

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Wow.

Zac Crane (Guest): Well, I think for even the older generation, just having younger people to talk to and you know who people who I wouldn’t say understand, but they get the lingo, they understand generally what it was like. I think it’s fun for them, too.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): And I would think when you join the army, you’re part of this community, this group. Like I don’t know if it’s almost family-like, you know, but it’s a shared experience and then you come back and you’re just like I don’t know.
 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): you kind it probably feels like you kind of just leave that behind and it I I would think that’d be kind of hard to not still feel like you’re in that inclusive community that’s like your family. I don’t know Yeah.

Zac Crane (Guest): Yeah. No, it is hard. So I like to go to work in the army, right? I hardly even considered it work because it was fun. But when you go to work to be around men and women who would literally die for you, right? literally they would um be a pretty unique experience, right? To just be surrounded. I mean, you could maybe not even get along or even like them, but if it came down to it, they would give their life for you. That’s just part of the job. So, like you I you will never find that outside of the military or maybe like law enforcement and fire. So to have that core system and essentially take that’s like on a thread and you snip it and it’s completely gone because right they’re still your friends but typically when you get out you move away.

 
Zac Crane (Guest): So you magically separated again and then your military friends have a mission they’re planning and they’re preparing and like they’re they still care about you but their life doesn’t stop just because you got out. They still have to do all the things. So again, I was lucky when I got out. I was married. I had two kids, a wife and kids that loved me. So I think that made that portion less significant, but it was still hard to this day. It’s still hard to have good friends, right? Because it’s just it’s a different kind of bond and friendship for sure.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah, that I mean I could only imagine. I I had another friend who recently retired from the police force and he shared a little bit of a similar sentiment where you’re in the thick of everything. You know what’s going on. You’re listening to the police blotter and you know you’re staying connected with everything and then boop you’re you’re out and now you you’re maybe you can still listen in on the public police bladder but you’re not involved in anything and you don’t have access to you know know the details of stuff and it yeah it’s a disconnect but I think having that you know shared group is a great way to have that connection and yeah I
 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): think that’s probably a great piece of advice that we’d want to give to all you veterans who are listening um or or those who may know somebody, but go go check out some Facebook groups because that’s a great way to have that here like

Zac Crane (Guest): Yeah. Again, like I do I preface it. My situation is unique, like with my family and marriage and kids, but I can’t imagine being 20 years old and making the decision to get out and not having any of that. Like like I said, I didn’t feel like the lost soul who was struggling like deeply, but I do see how people are like 100% I get that and I try to be really cognizant and the people I was over like I try and text them and ask how they’re doing phone calls because yeah, I really want to help anyone who has especially close with like make a smooth transition out because without that I mean some of them come from rough backgrounds too. maybe even their parents or family can’t or aren’t there for them.
 
  
Zac Crane (Guest): So, yeah, they really do need that support. So, right, we don’t need any sort of special treatment, right?

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah, that’s a really good point. So, on the work side, companies, how would you say that a company should support veterans in the workplace?

Zac Crane (Guest): I’m not going to do anyone a disservice by saying, “Oh, you need to do this or that.” But maybe there are some things to be aware of, right? like um I would say veterans are amazing hires mostly. There’s exceptions and if you’re a veteran, you’re probably laughing right now, but we’re really task oriented and goal driven. So if there’s a goal that a team or an organization is working towards, if you just tell them like, hey, the end state or we want this, we want X, Y, and Z to be like the end goal, they will do, they will stop at nothing to accomplish that goal. Like they’re very goal driven. And typically if you do hire someone, especially a younger veteran, they have been given roles and responsibilities in the military that are 20 levels above their expertise.
 
  
Zac Crane (Guest): Like I had 20some year old E5s or E6s in the army briefing generals overseas on like and giving them courses of action and recommendations on ways to to do certain things. So like you don’t get that in the civilian world. You would never have an intern go um give a presentation to a CEO because that’d be the equivalent, right? You would never have.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

Zac Crane (Guest): So they really are comfortable being given hard tasks too. Um something that was hard for me personally when I got back was leadership styles. I was ve I was very used and comfortable to a very specific leadership style where they would say hey Zach you will do this there’s not an option to do anything differently and it will be perfect right so that was just what I used to do to go and have other leaders who were like oh figure it out like you’ll be okay like you know at first I was like what do you mean figure it out

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Do you like Concrete?

Zac Crane (Guest): like just just do it like yeah and like well when does it have to be Oh, sometimes in Q3.
 

 
Zac Crane (Guest): So, I kind of would have appreciated it a little more directly.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): You want the concrete. Yeah.

Zac Crane (Guest): Right. Right. And then like I learned to get creative, you know, it took some time, but now I wouldn’t appreciate that as much. But yeah, those are some things.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Very interesting. Yeah. And it makes sense. I mean, given the kind of uh command style leadership, that totally makes sense. Would you um be there any advice you would give to a veteran about navigating the I guess the labor market if they’re looking for a job?

Zac Crane (Guest): Yes. Yeah. Um, I’m going to be hyperbolic here. Um, it’s going to hurt some feelings if you’re a veteran. Uh, but I always tell people nobody cares about your service. And that’s not true. We know that’s not true. But I’m trying to drive a point, right? like people care and they appreciate and they value what you did and the sacrifices you and your family made across the board.
 

 
Zac Crane (Guest): I’ve never had someone say I don’t appreciate you for doing that. But truly, a lot of the skills that I at least I can speak for me personally learned, they were not directly transferable to the civilian workforce. Right? Sure, I learned leadership styles. I learned how to communicate. I learned how to like work under pressure, but I didn’t learn formulas in Excel, right? And I didn’t learn how to um like sales techniques and sales strategies. I didn’t learn these things that these organizations are looking for when they’re hiring, right? So, if I was giving advice to veterans, if you know you’re getting out or you’re planning on getting out, there’s programs in the army and I can help you with these, but keep up on your education, right? You can I always told my soldiers like the army will pay for you while you’re in to get a college degree.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Do you have it?

Zac Crane (Guest): Take a college course this semester. It’s not hard, right?
 
  
Zac Crane (Guest): So, always keep maintaining your education. Um, even like, especially if you know it’s just like a stepping stone, right? If you know you’re going to get out, do that. Take courses, right? Take leadership courses, take some project management classes. There’s all sorts of things you can enroll in concurrently. You’re doing your military training and your academic training. and they’re only going to help each other while you’re in and it’s truly going to set you up for success when you get out. Um because the more again like I said they people do appreciate your service. So like I said they don’t actually care or you know but yeah there’s people right now who if you’re in the military and they’re working their way up the corporate ladder they’re going to be ahead of you right if you’re not doing something on your own. So that’s some advice I would give. And then I would also say uh don’t be afraid to jump out. If the military is the only thing you’ve known, do not be afraid to make the leap because you can do it.
 

 
Zac Crane (Guest): You can be successful and you may take half a step back for a year or two transparently, but your skills and your knowledge and your leadership abilities are going to propel you forward faster in the long term.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): And I think I think that’s great advice even for those who are not veterans to just always keep learning always always doing learning on your own that’s not just like give me information from my direct report or whatever

Zac Crane (Guest): Yes.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): right so we’re always always learning, always trying to gain our own skills and doing that helps you figure out what you really want to do. So

Zac Crane (Guest): Yeah, most definitely. Um, and another piece of advice, they don’t swear as much in the civilian world. So for me it was when I remember when I went back to my first civilian job getting out I was like oh my gosh no one’s swearing this is crazy. It’s quiet but it’s not as much. So just be prepared for that.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): there you go. That’s a social norm.
 

 
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah, I I I definitely see what you mean, though. I mean, my brother-in-law also served in the military as well, and I just feel like he’s such a hard worker, so determined. He does sacrifice a little maybe a little too much like a little self-sacrificing but as as a company hiring him and I and you and and just I think of of everything that you had to do just to be trained you made it through that which shows great determination great grit and and so I think it they would be great hires for sure. So yeah, thank you for all of your advice and all that you shared. And were there any final things you wanted to add, Zach?

Zac Crane (Guest): Um, no. I mean, well, maybe one thing. Like, if you’re watching this and you’re in the military or you’re a veteran and you’re confused on what to do or maybe you’re afraid, you’re going to be okay, right? You’re going to figure it out. Someone’s going to want to hire you and you’re going to find a way to crush it.
 

Zac Crane (Guest): So, go get it.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): I love that. Yeah, go get it. That’s awesome. To all of our veterans and active duty, seriously, thank you for what you do. And all of our law enforcement, first responders. I mean, we have some incredible people doing amazing work in this country. And on a personal note, it’s so awesome working with you, Zach, um, at the Mober team, and we’re honored. We can attest to that. Veterans are good hires. They can definitely attest to that. So, anybody that wants to learn about reviews, Zach’s your guy. Definitely connect with him on LinkedIn. Um he’s awesome at what he does and we’re not pushy. We love to just connect and he’s very entertaining on LinkedIn too. So you should definitely follow, give that follow.

Zac Crane (Guest): Yeah. LinkedIn account because it’ll be good for your career too.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): That’s true.

Zac Crane (Guest): Yeah.

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): That’s a really really good piece of advice. But yeah, thank you again for joining us today and for everyone listening. Um make sure to follow the culture profit, leave a review.

Zac Crane (Guest): Thanks, guys.