Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Welcome everyone. Today we’re headed to Japan to talk with Tom Kobayashi (Guest), a seasoned talent development strategist who helps organic organizations thrive across cultures from traditional Japanese work norms to modern shifts in leadership and engagement. Tom is bringing us a fresh lens on how people grow, connect, and perform in a global workplace. So Tom, thanks for joining us today.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Great to be joining you, Matt and Christa. Yeah, looking forward to this very much.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): We’re excited as well. I’m particularly excited because I haven’t had the chance to talk with Tom prior to this call and so it’s going to be a full-on learning experience for me. But a little bit more about Tom. Tom is a talent development strategist in Tokyo who helps organizations strengthen leadership, engagement, and culture. Drawing on a career that’s taken him from banking and audits to learning and development, he’s passionate about how people grow, connect, and perform across cultures.
 

 
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Tom brings a curious, forward-looking perspective on what it takes to create workplaces where people and businesses thrive. Sounds very interesting. So, I would love to just hear a little bit more about you. Catch me up.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Absolutely. Yeah. And thank you so much for that. Um yeah, great intro. I sound pretty amazing with that. Well, no, it’s a pleasure to be here and so, you know, um greetings from very barmy Japan. We’re still in the middle of summer. Um, I think it’s been consistently 35 degrees uh Celsius plus over here. So, um, we’re all suffering a bit.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Wow.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Um, so yeah, I’m Tom and as Matt and Kristen mentioned, I work as a talent development strategist. Um, I’m based in Tokyo. Um, and I’ve got quite a I suppose cross-cultural type background myself.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): He

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): So, my father’s Japanese, I’m my mother’s English. And I grew up first in a very rural farm community in Japan.
 
  
Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Uh it’s like it’s called the Japanese Alps in Yamanashi. And then we moved to the UK when I was 8 years old. And I kind of spent the rest of my childhood and education uh kind of growing up there. Um so it is really kind of shaped I suppose how I see people and organizations. Um because also my parents were involved with a Swiss NGO and uh part of that I suppose mission was to bring people together from different countries around the world. So from very early childhood I was used to a kind of an environment where there was a lot of different nationalities and people from different backgrounds and I think you know retrospectively I see that really influenced how I

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): approach things uh in my adult life as well. Um so professionally as you mentioned um I started out I suppose in a more traditional kind of setting um I joined HSBC to charge of university um got involved with audit and tax um accounting basically um did a stint in England and then also in Australia.
 

 
Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Um and when I was in Australia, it kind of I had a moment where I was um bringing people up to speed with tax law. Yeah. Very dry, quite boring. But what was interesting was um just seeing I suppose people’s um you know clicking into understanding. Um so I was designing a learning program as it were to get people used to a new tax regulation. Um and even though the subject matter was very dry, what I really found interesting was people’s ability to learn. And so I suppose that was an initial seed to how I’ve kind of got into learning and development since then. So up to date I kind of moved back to Japan um back in 2002. Um and since then I’ve been involved with various different organizations and that’s really been about learning and development through communication, leadership, um coaching and looking at culture within an organization and partnering with a lot of HR people and what they’re doing within there. So it’s a very exciting kind of mix of um I suppose nationalities.
 

 
Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Japan’s changing a lot as well at the moment. So, it’s quite interesting to see what’s happening here. Um, and lastly, I suppose I’m I’m I’m quite passionate about the link between mental and physical well-being as well and how that impacts people development. Um, and I think especially in a culture like Japan, I see a lot of um movement there because as we’ll probably kind of discuss in further detail later, um, you know, there’s a lot of kinds of cultural norms here which, um, kind of hinder that in many ways. So yeah, that’s just a little bit about myself.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): That’s so neat, Tom. And you know, you definitely have a much more diverse background than me. I can relate a little bit where my dad is from Canada and my mom is from Arkansas. And so they’re definitely, you know, different uh cultural norms within those two um as well within my family. And so that’s pretty neat that you have that background. And I think that you hold the record on the podcast for the biggest time difference as well because I wanted to call that I mean it’s 4:30 p.m.
 
 
Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Okay.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): for us in Utah in the states and what is it for you right now?

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Yeah. And it’s 7-7:20 I suppose. Yeah. Over here I am Yeah.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): 7:20 on is it the 28th? Are you ahead? Yeah. Yeah.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): It is the 28th then. Way ahead. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): First episode recorded on two days at the exact same time. That’s cool. I like that.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): There we go. We’ve crossed the deadline. There we go.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah, love it. That’s really cool. So, just kind of diving into this a little bit more, tell us about the cultural norms impacting the workplace. You know, what do you see in Japan? Yeah. Yeah. In Japan, it’s very interesting.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Yeah, it is really interesting. So I think you know a lot of people might have this image of Japan as with the work culture you know these kind of working extremely long hours there’s a very strict kind of hierarchy um we have what’s
 

 
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): All right.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): called a senpai core high kind of situation so senpai is the uh senior and a kohhai is a junior and so within any Japanese organization usually you have these relationships where like people who are older get a lot more respect and people who are junior are kind of doing a lot of the kind of you know dogs body kind of work you know um so there’s a very strict hierarchy still I suppose um group harmony or w is very important um so over individual voice um again that’s kind of changing a little bit but um if you go to things like meetings then you’re not necessarily probably going to have a debate style or people raising ideas so quickly um because they don’t want to kind of rock the boat. Um so those kind of things usually will happen outside of a a formal meeting and there’s a lot of kind of um agreements that happen outside of the actual meeting room um before you go into a meeting room

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): I’ll eat it.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): where everything is very you know kind of harmonious and calm as it were.
 
  
Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Um and then I suppose another aspect which probably a lot of people have heard about is this aspect of lifetime employment. Um so that’s also in transition in many ways. Um but I think as a culture there’s still a lot of expectation that if people say join a company after graduation there is a lot of expectation to stay within that company for their lifetime. So you know they’re going to spend maybe 30-40 years kind of going from role to role.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): So I think you know coming from western culture myself it was always my belief that I wanted to gain as many skills as possible. I wanted to learn as much as possible and then you know get those promotions and it didn’t really matter which company I was kind of working at.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): As much as possible.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Um whereas in Japan it’s often you know you stay with the one company and you’re kind of changing roles quite often every say two to three years and you could be going from say frontline sales type role into a back office HR role within you know the same five years or something.
 
  
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Interesting.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Um yeah it’s really kind of fascinating how they do that. So you get a lot of generalists, you know, so people the idea is that everybody will get a really deep understanding of how a company operates and how the organization kind of operates behind the scenes as it were. Um so you all understand each other and that kind of goes back to that kind of harmony thing as well.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): That’s Wow.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Yeah. Yeah. Um so I think there’s a lot of um I think the country in itself and the work is in transition and you have this kind of younger generation of people coming into the workforce now who actually do you know value that kind of work life balance a bit more and are looking for a bit more flexibility as well. Um, another important aspect is obviously women and they’re kind of pushing for greater representation and leadership opportunities. Um, the government has kind of set a benchmark or target um for at least listed companies to achieve 30% women in leadership roles.
 
 
Tom Kobayashi (Guest): And I think you know if 30% sounds quite little, right? But it’s actually, you know, quite ambitious if you actually look at the representation.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): a big change, right?

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Yeah.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): At the moment.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Yeah. It’s it’s much much lower than that at the moment, you know, which is a real missed opportunity because you have a lot of amazing talented women coming into the workforce at graduation level and then maybe about 5 years,

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): It’s not

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): 6 years, seven years down the line, they’re kind of exiting the workforce in many ways once they get married, once they have kids. Um and then it’s very difficult to come back into the workforce as well because the structures aren’t really there. So that’s that’s a kind of big big issue but it is thankfully kind of changing as well and it’s kind of taken that governmental intervention I suppose in a way to kind of try and push that along as

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): That’s a cool

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Well. Um now lastly I think um you know globalization um so this word itself has been ringing around a lot of the kind of Japanese companies for a long time especially the major corporations.
 

 
Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Um and then the usage of English as well. Um because as we kind of go forward we have this kind of demographic time bomb as we call it over here. um you know the the number of people um who are going to be um 60 and over is going to be quite extensive you know 30 40% in a very short period of time and basically the there’s no babies being born you know it’s um it’s not kind of sustainable um so which means that um we’re we’re really struggling I think as we go forward forward to bring in the younger pipeline.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Um so a lot of companies are looking abroad especially within APAC to see if we can attract more people to come and work in Japan but it’s kind of clashing with the language barrier which is quite high um and also visas and just permits to work in Japan which is also quite strict.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Mhm.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Um so yeah there’s a lot of kind of uh you know clashing of heads at the moment happening in Japan.
 
  
Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Um which you know does make it a very interesting place to be the space to be

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. so interesting with the line of work that you’re in. And this is something that’s really interesting to me. I did my studies at college in the family consumer sciences and we had like a whole day where we talked about the demographic issues in different countries. Japan was one that we talked about and and so this is really interesting to me and I it makes me wonder like when you were first sharing about how you’re seeing some of these changes happening like where are those stemming from and I would guess that the demographics are a big source of that where people are trying to hire the younger generation and it’s it’s competitive because and they they want these people and there’s not enough

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Yep.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): of them and so they now have the cards to say well I want a little I want more flexibility and I and oh, I’m a mom. I just came from being a mom and I’m ready to work.
 
 
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): And now they’re a little more desperate and willing to make some changes that they haven’t had in the past. I mean, does that seem like one of the sources? And then obviously you’re having the government getting involved as well.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Yeah, it’s a massive factor. Um and you know traditionally especially with the large companies they bring in this new batch of new grads every April. So if it’s a really big you know global corporation Japanese brand um you can be bringing in two one two 3,000 new grads to the workforce.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Whoa.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): So you have this massive influx and so there have been that’s been a steady supply of new blood into any corporation and that’s dwindling obviously and as you correctly kind of surmised it’s um it’s getting tighter and tighter

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Right.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): and so this war on talent is very real um and you know so they’ve had to cast their nets wider you know these kind of top logos they’ve traditionally gone for the kind of Tokyo university, Kyoto University, which

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): That’s
 
 
Tom Kobayashi (Guest): are like the equivalent to say Harvard and Stanford or Oxford and Cambridge and so they’ve been quite lax in a way many ways because they just expected that to continue but now they’ve had to you know go much much wider and there’s lots of educational institutions universities in Japan to choose from but they’ve been very picky um in the past and they’ve had to you know basically stop doing that and cast much wider and also looking abroad as well. So that’s also been a big factor. And as we’re seeing this kind of demographic effect um really impact the pipeline for talent, um the universities themselves obviously realize, okay, there’s less, you know, Japanese people applying because there’s less people um you know, generally that would

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Thank you.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): usually coming in. So they’re also kind of having to calibrate their courses in order to make it much more attractive for people from outside of Japan to come and study at these, you know, universities now. And so you’re seeing a lot more English courses coming up. Um so some universities are kind of switching to certain programs being delivered just in English to try and accommodate this.
 

 
Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Um and obviously you do need the language to work here. I mean that’s fairly critical but at the same time you know if you’re a further education institution your kind of survival is basically on numbers like you need the students to come in. So yeah it there’s so many

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah, true.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): kind of you know factors and struggles going on and I definitely think there’s going to be a cut back of the number of these institutions. It’s all or maybe mergers which are slowly happening as well. So that’s another, you know, exciting space to kind of look at too. Yeah.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): So, as a talent development strategist, I’m curious, you know, you have this incredible background stemming even from your your own parents where you’re able to kind of bring different cultures and backgrounds together and and you have those combinations within yourself, but um how how is that working in Japan and and knowing that what the cultural norms are and like do you try to strengthen the sense of group harmony or are you trying to help them be

 
Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Mhm.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): more in the specialization like the western the way westerns do it, right?

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Yeah, it is really interesting. I mean generally especially I suppose after COVID or during COVID um so before COVID a lot of organizations were still kind of using this old model you know get this massive influx of students and then train them up and keep them but the realization was that you know this really had to change and another consequence of co was the digitization so even though maybe this is another impression I I think a lot of, you know, non-Japanese people have that Japan’s this super sophisticated technological, you know, company. But you open the hood and it’s really not.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Foreign

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Even with the major corporations, um, you know, they have fairly old legacy systems like CRM or LMS’s which have been, you know, grinding away in the background for years and years and they’ve just been kind of added to. Um what co did was kind of change that quite quickly you know so I was kind of talking to people at Fujitsu for example um where you know Fujitsu is a massive brand it’s been around for years and years very reputable um and it’s a technology company um but they were still in that kind of quite old system um what co did was suddenly they realized okay so people can’t really come to the office we’ve got
 
  
Tom Kobayashi (Guest): massive real estate they decided quite quickly to basically get rid of that. So a majority of their workforce still continue to work from home and they had to improve their, you know, their kind of communication technology as well to ensure that people could work and collaborate more effectively.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Um so I think that kind of prompted a lot of change in a way which was actually good. Um, and I think that’s the general attitude that companies are realizing that yes, it’s not going to be very, you know, beneficial to stick to the old system. Um, so and but there’s always this lag, right? So, you know, okay, so the leadership says, okay, we’re going to go completely different, you know, we’re going to enhance people’s ability to get ahead. um you know you can have a more specialized career path. Um and this is what some other companies have also done. They’ve increased the um you know the new grad um starting salary for example because again traditionally there was very low because they would offer things like housing and you know travel and there’s a lot of kind of add-ons which ensured that people weren’t you know starving or anything like that.
 

 
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Um but now you know they’ve recognized that okay so if we’re bringing in people from an IT background who’ve studied computer science then these people should be getting more because we’re competing against the Googles and the metas who are also present here and they’re kind of taking all this top talent. Um so that’s really helped I think change the attitude but it’s still as a culture and as a people um you know people still don’t necessarily want to rock the boat you know they don’t want to kind of point out or give feedback openly you know things are very careful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah, it sounds like there’s obviously a little bit of uh politics and social norms that exist.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Mhm.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): You know, I think it’s interesting because we have a pretty wide range of listeners from different countries and backgrounds and company sizes and industries. And I think comparisons can be very powerful. And like for me sitting here and listening to all of these um things like the senior junior dynamic, the group harmony verse individual voice, lifetime employment concept, you know, getting more women representation, globalization and the I think you had said a term Englishes was that the term you had used when we when we that’sization Yeah, I want I want you to tell us more about that.
 
  
Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Uh um so there is a term Englishizization. Yeah, it’s a mouthful. I know it’s a mouthful and it’s very much a Japanese term which means Yeah.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): But I think it’s so powerful when you start to reflect on your own lived experience and your own culture, your own company.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Yeah.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): It’s just like you go drive your own car, your own house, and you see other people in a different house in a different car. I mean, some of that’s not healthy, but we just kind of naturally go to comparisons for processing things sometimes and I think there’s some stark comparisons here.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): All right.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Well, and especially if you’re having companies that are not bringing in a lot of new people and the hierarchy is there where you know the people who have been there the longest are the ones who are making the changes. So you’re not going to have your probably not going to have a whole lot of comparisons being that people are going to be studying like they’re just coming in as college graduates and staying in the same company.
 
 
Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Right.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): So they’re not pulling ideas from other work experiences they’ve had. So yeah, it’s tricky.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Yeah, it is.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): So yeah, I want to hear about this Englishization.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Is it Julia? Um, so it was kind of I suppose um pioneered in many ways by Rakuten. So you might have heard of Rakuten. So it’s kind of similar to Amazon um and is created by this Yeah.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Okay.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): this amazing guy called Mickey Tanisan. Um who actually studied at Harvard um so he was a very talented guy. He was in banking initially and then he saw this opportunity um some time ago that you know it people were going to switch to the internet to basically function. Um so like you know Bezos he created this kind of shopping channel in a way where people could sell and buy things online. Um and he I think realized um that yeah that there was this fundamental change happening. Um he had had that opportunity to study abroad and you know he saw that English was the you know the language of business I suppose.
 
 
Tom Kobayashi (Guest): So you know it was a kind of revolutionary thing. He decided that his whole company was going to speak English and it was not going to take such a long time to achieve.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): It’s very ambitious.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): So um very very very ambitious you know and um so what the company I was working at at the time berlets we were kind of involved in that initial phase to try and help people um so provide you

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yes.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): know a service to get people up to speed with their English. Um the measurement was um TOIC which is one of the you know global I suppose measurements of English ability. Um, and so people were expected to get up to a certain level within a given amount of time. Um, and so it was really ambitious and I think, you know, one of the things is obviously it made headlines everywhere and it kind of rocked the boat because Raken is a relatively new player.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): What is it? Chicken.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): You know, it’s not one of these super traditional companies.
 
 
Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Um, but from there, you know, other major corporations also decided to do this. Um, you know, Chaseedo was another one, Honda was another one. Um, and not only because, you know, they wanted everybody to speak English, but they kind of realized that their revenue ratios were going kind of there was a much heavier waiting happening outside of Japan. So, traditionally, you know, a lot of Japanese companies, majority of the revenue is coming from the domestic sales. Um but this was changing and sometimes quite dramatically. So they knew that they also had to change. Um so the impact of that also was that they’re also bringing in more leadership to be representative of those other countries. Um and so at HQs you’re seeing a bit more diversity when it comes to representation of non-Japanese on the boards.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Mhm.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Um and that kind of creates this momentum I suppose um for change. Um it it I suppose it’s been hit and miss a little bit and it’s still ongoing. Um but it is kind of um and it’s another kind of exciting area where I’ve been involved in some respect as well.
 

 
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): That’s That’s really interesting. I’m sure I could benefit from being forced to learn another language.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Right.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): So, I would love to hear your opinions and thoughts about how organizations can better support these different backgrounds and different languages in the workplace. You’ve got the experience. So, yeah.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Yeah. Yeah. Um so I think you know l language obviously um is that kind of surface layer I suppose. Um, so you know, if you’re going to be supporting this kind of multilingual, multicultural workforce, it’s not going to be just about English training or, you know, offering translation, but it’s it’s really kind of digging into, you know, the systems and the cultures, um, where people are going to feel, I suppose, psychologically safe to contribute, um, even if they’re not going to be, you know, perfect in the language that they’re expressing those thoughts I’m so

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): That’s it.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): You know some things that we’ve seen and we’ve kind of advised on is just it might sound basic but things like just slowing down a bit in meetings um you know checking for understanding and also kind of creating that kind of mixed language collaboration norms.
 

 
Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Yeah. Um so and you know Berkeley House where I work at the moment we kind of work with global organizations in Japan to really address this. Um so the learning programs combine you know language um skills with also cultural um agility. Um and that means you know that especially when it comes to say managers of teams where they’ve got this cross-section of people that they’re now managing um it’s really important for them to try and change how they approach um those interactions because if they have team members from Japan and maybe Indonesia and Singapore and England their kind of expectations of how they’re going to contributing is very different you know so some may be more aligned to Japanese type of approach but definitely others are not you know at all um and even junior people will be speaking up um you know sometimes quite aggressively um and that will be a big shock so um we’ve been

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): opportunities.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): you know preparing them I suppose and you know be provide those kind of opportunities to role play um and giving them some tools as well which um we provide to where they can get a kind of broad understanding of those different cultures and the norms when it comes to different aspects of business so that they they’re actually armed with that knowledge.
 

 
Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Um, and it’s not something that they’re immediately going to get. But it is very much about stepping back a bit and trying to listen a lot more as opposed to just, you know, if you go to a traditional Japanese meeting, it’s often the leader who’s speaking and then everybody else is just nodding along and maybe they’ll give an update in turn. Um, but it’s very ordered, you know, and structured.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. Yeah.
Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Um, whereas you know a lot of say traditional some western meetings, it’s a lot more about getting ideas out or persuading and debating, which will be very scary for a lot of Japanese people you know. Yeah.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): very interesting and I think you know supporting a multicultural multilingual workforce to me it feels like a more complex um communication system right that there’s greater needs transactionally of simply understanding words, but also

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Yeah.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): a deeper level of understanding feelings and expectations. And so there’s just multiple I mean, we as humans are already complex, but then you layer these different components in. And um I’d love to hear just to if there’s any other points you’d like to share about
 
 
Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Sure.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Berkeley House as far as what you offer specifically. Some people may be listening just curious or like where they can get more resources or learn to kind of dive into this a little bit more.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Absolutely. Yeah. Um, so Berkeley House started as a language school. So it’s been around for over 50 years. Um so you know the basis of it I suppose what it was providing was language and then we kind of moved into things like business skills specific skills like meetings, negotiations, presentations and then also now into things like leadership and executive coaching um psychological safety you know intercultural communication etc. Um so we kind of try and obviously language tends to be very important for a lot of Japanese organizations. Um so but in addition to that um we’re kind of offering um things like seminars and workshops where people can actually come together to practice not just the language um but those specific skills in a again a safe environment right because a lot of people are uh you know super scared that they have to stand up in front of everybody either in person or virtually and give a presentation in English say um it’s terrifying for many people and it it’s not expected usually in Japanese organization the juniors won’t be doing this you know it’s only once you get to manager level and much more senior yeah um you’re just kind of preparing it for them
 
  
Tom Kobayashi (Guest): and you know creating all the kind of slides and things um so you know we do a lot of that um and then also we have a lot of expertise in um psychology you know so how people are

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): I think that’s

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): maybe thinking um signals to kind of look for body language because I think um I don’t know if this is also something in your mind you know if you think of a typical Japanese say businessman maybe you have this image of a very stonyfaced person who doesn’t give anything away you know that there’s no gestures you know very still kind of thing you know very zen um so it it’s difficult to read in many ways um but that there are signals there for non-Japanese to maybe pick up. Um, you know, here, um, you know, people don’t necessarily say no. So, I’ve heard it many, many times when companies that are coming into the Japan market, um, they might be able to, you know, score these meetings with some key people in organizations and they kind of leave the meeting saying, “Wow, that was so positive.”
 
 
Tom Kobayashi (Guest): You know, everybody was agreeing, everybody’s nodding, right? We’re going to move to the next stage, you know, let’s start a trial or, you know, let’s start a partnership and then nothing happens. And, you know, and so you have to be able to read the room a lot because so much in Japanese society is unsaid and you know that there is this skill where you have to be able to read

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Good.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): the room, read the air type thing.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah, they’re not Mhm.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Um exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Um and then you have you know Japanese people who are welcoming maybe new team members and you know some of them will be openly maybe agitated or you know they’re very expressive right facially. Um, and for Japanese people, it’s like maybe that’s exaggerated because they think, “Oh my god, you know, he’s so upset or you know, oh my god, she’s Yeah, she’s why is she so happy?” You know, it’s kind of like this, you know, escalation of, you know, emotions and things which come in which aren’t necessarily encouraged in a Japanese workplace.
 

 
Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Um so yeah that there’s um all these things maybe we could we do provide that kind of help to allow people to practice that in a safe environment um to bring in our expertise with our facilitators who can also bring in different perspectives from all those different cultures and to really kind of I suppose push them beyond their comfort zone but again within that safe environment as well.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. Yeah. I love how you said that uh the language is more of a surface level thing and the cultural aspects are that’s who we are. Our language is not who we are, right?

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Right.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): It’s just how we communicate.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Right.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): But the world we really are becoming more of a global workplace and you know Japan is having that need to maybe expand their talent efforts into other countries and but there are people in the US that I know personally who work they work for a company in the Netherlands and you know our our world is becoming more global and it’s important to have these tools and these strategies to help collaboration be more more more harmonious and
 

 
Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Yeah.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): So yeah, if you for everyone listening and if you want to go beyond the surface level and dive more into this, check out Berkeley House and connect with Tom. And uh yeah, anything you guys wanted to add before we wrap up? Really appreciate everything you’ve shared, Tom. This has been very delightful. Any last comments before we wrap up here?

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Um, I suppose, you know, if people are kind of curious about working in Japan, I’m always open. I’m on LinkedIn, so you know, please get in touch, shoot me a message. Um, one of the things I’ve I suppose learned is if you do come to Japan and you do have a meeting or whatever, um, hold hold back a bit and, you know, just spend a bit of time listening

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Ah Yes.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): because it can make the whole whole difference because I think a lot of times in western culture, it’s about you expressing your ideas quickly to make an impact, right? Whereas in Japan, it’s more about okay, you have to build that trust quite slowly.
 
 
Tom Kobayashi (Guest): So that takes time.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Okay.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Um, and then once that relationship is established, then you can begin to get into the deeper stuff. But that kind of initial period of, you know, getting the relationship solid is kind of critical for success. And you can really see that in companies that have survived here when they’ve entered the market and those that haven’t. and had to kind of exit within a year or two. So yeah. Yeah. Um but yeah, I look forward to if anybody wants to get in touch, um I’m fairly active on LinkedIn, so please, you know, shoot me a message.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Thanks, Tom. I think those final words of advice are good. Even if you’re not thinking about working in Japan, being a listener and seeking to understand, I think that’s something that can be good advice for everybody. And so, thank you so much for everything that you shared today.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Absolutely.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): It was so great hearing all of your thoughts and your experiences. And for all those listening to the culture profit, check out our next episode and leave us a review. Yeah. Thank you, Tom. We’ll see you.

 

Tom Kobayashi (Guest): Thanks so much. Thank you.