Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Welcome everyone to the culture profit podcast. We’re so excited to have HyacinthMorrison here with us today. I got to meet Hyacinthas a fellow women to know. This is like a new inaugural first thing in Utah. And anyways, lots of talented women, but so excited to talk with Hyacinthtoday about layoffs. And she has unfortunately done many of them, but what she’s learned is that there’s a right way and a wrong way to do them. And today we’re going to help you learn about the right way. So, um, Matt’s going to share your bio, but just welcome and so excited to have you today. Hi, Asyn.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Thank you. Thank you, Crista.Thank you, Matt.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): And Hi, she’s super impressive. I’m very pleased to read her bio. So, HyacinthMorrison ACC is an executive coach and former chief people officer with 20 plus years of senior HR leadership. She has led organizations through major change, including a 620 role restructuring during a recapitalization that kept turnover below 10%.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Okay, we’re going to have to hear more about that because that’s mindblowing. She coaches executives to lead clearly and steadily through uncertainty and to communicate change in a way people trust. She is also the founder of SDA people partners and holds an ICF ACC credential. So hi, thanks for being here.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Thank you. Thank you.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah. So tell us more about SDA people Partners.I would love if you want to share the name of it because I thought that was really special and and then just tell us about your career
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yeah.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): in general. Heat. Heat.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yeah. So SDA people partners I I I knew um I knew 10 years ago that I wanted to start at at probably right about this time that I wanted to have a consulting business and I was really thoughtful about what the name should be. What I came up with was I came up with the why first of all and then what it is I want to do.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): The why is Sabrina, Diana and Ariana. Those are my three daughters. And yes,
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): I love that.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Sabrina, Diana, and Ariana. They were always the why. They were the reason I I I wanted them to know what I was taught very early on. How you treat people,
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): how you show up at work. These my three girls are three HR babies for sure. My daughter, a funny story, then I’ll go back to Korea. A funny story. Um, my youngest daughter called me the other day and she said, “I think my husband just put me on a PIP.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Oh no.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): He had a meeting.” They know the language.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Oh no.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Um, apparently her spending or her Amazon spending had gotten out of hand and he had asked he had asked for a meeting. He made reference to the time they talked before and had an agreement. She said it was literally a pip. And she said,
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): So they they they’ve learned English,
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): “Do that’s exactly right.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): you know, but also the language of HR.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): They know.” And two of two of the three of them are in HR. So it is.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Oh, man.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): So there’s my why and then what I do and as as as my career has gone along I’ve been in HR my entire career but as as I progressed through my career the last 20 years has been at the executive level um at the seauite level and I’ve been fortunate to lead um HR organizations for at least 22 years I think it is at this point um and I realize strategy development and advisory are the things I do are the most important
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Perfect.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): things that an organization needs. That’s so the strategy is where my fractional chief HR officer work is the people strategy um partner work is the development is my executive coaching is the leadership development leadership retreats all things leadership and then the advisory is the HR projects is the um the handbooks or I just need you to come in we’ve got this or maybe it’s restructuring and they’re going through and they just need
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): me to come in and help walk them through how to do it. So that’s SDA and the people partners is of course I partner with all things people, but um I value the relationships I’ve built along the way, the relationships with recruiters and relationships with so many other talented people that I realized along the way.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Mhm.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): I don’t have to do everything, but I’ve got excellent partners that I have built along the way that um have heart and do things the way I have been able to do things in my career. So that’s SDA, people partners.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): I I seriously love that. I love how you came up with the name and to me it seems like that’s fit your personality so well
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Mhm.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): because I can tell you guys at the no women event she was the life of the party. So, like seriously,
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Stop.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): and she brought this amazing group with her, but um that you get to go and and when you’re a fractional person,
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yeah.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): you get to go meet and and develop so many relationships instead of just your bubble of one
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yeah.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): company, which is Yeah,
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): That’s it.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): it’s amazing.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yeah.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): So,
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): And and that was my vision. Yeah. Because I’ve been able to do that throughout my career.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): So I’ll tell you about the career. Um so I I was born and raised in England. So I started my career in England. Um in insurance I think it was to begin with.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Oh, wow.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yeah. Insurance.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Nice.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): But I started there I think as a receptionist or something similar. I took over. I realized that I loved people. I understood how to recruit.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): So I became the recruiter. I became all things HR and I it was instinct and then of course I learned and I kept learning and I kept progressing. Um I then went on to retail the largest one of the largest Harrods is larger than the one I worked for John Lewis Partnership.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Um, it was a company that was known for just the benefits that they offered their employees. People did not leave that company. You had to wait till somebody died to get a position there. And I saw an opening for a part-time HR person um on the weekends. So, I went to interview um and let me tell you, let me tell you the biggest benefit. So if you work for the company for 25 years, you get six months paid vacation every year.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Whoa. Wow.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): That was just one of Oh,
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): That will keep you motivated for the long haul.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): they Oh, they stayed. The countdown. I’ve got 10 more years. I’ve got 15 more years because it was a model.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Oh man.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): So people absolutely stayed. And then every 12 days you worked, you got a personal day. Every I mean, their benefits were just unreal. And you know the UK have really good benefits.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah. Oh yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): They outdid the UK benefits and so you know
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Holy cow.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): we were all people were just waiting and and and it was known that if you work for John Lewis partnership you you were top tier because they were really picky as well. So it was hard to get into. I applied I interviewed for this part-time pos um this weekend position. It was part time weekend position and they said we we we have to create a position for you and they created a position for me and within a month a position opened up in a permanent position and so um so that’s how I started with John Lewis Partnership and then I met my husband and he asked me to marry him and he was moving to America and I said no because I just started at John Lewis partnership. Are you kidding me? I’ve got 24 years to go. Anyway, I came I came here.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Oh man.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Um,
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): So he won, huh? It’s hard to resist love, you know.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): he’s my ex-husband, but it’s still fine.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Oh no.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Still fine. It’s still fine. It worked for 24 years.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Well, yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): And another show.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): But I’m guessing your three daughters are from that marriage,
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): There you go.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): right? So,
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): There you go.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): yeah. All worth it.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Beautiful.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Here we go.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): And we are friends. We are friends.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Oh,
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): So,
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): good.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): it’s all it’s it’s fine.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): That’s good.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): And so then so then the I came here and then consulting, aviation, manufacturing, I realized that manufacturing was the probably the the industry I loved the most. It was the closest to the people. It was blue collar. It was raw. It was But that’s where they challenge you to be real because they will call you out. anything that’s not authentic, they will call it out. I loved I loved the rawness of manufacturing because it helped
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): me explain things in a way that everybody can understand. Um, they would call it if if it wasn’t if it was disingenuous, if they felt like you were just giving them fluff, they would call it. And I loved it.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): So I spent I spent much I think I I don’t know how many years now but probably half of my career is is manufacturing then consumer yeah consumer package
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): That’s so cool.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): goods I worked for firearms company and big tobacco I’ve
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Wow.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): yeah I am industry agn agnostic yeah
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): um yeah yeah I I am right so
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Oh, that’s amazing. Well, yeah. No, you have so much experience and I I recognized that when we talked before this call and
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yes. Yeah.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): but we landed on restructuring layoffs,
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yes.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): doing them right. And so I first want to ask when you enter an organization, why are re why is restructuring sometimes the first thing you have to do and why is it
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yeah.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): important?
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Most organizations um especially in the last 20 years have asked me to come. So they’ve asked me to come because there’s there’s a I began to understand there’s a a way a framework of the way I do things. So one of the first things I do when I go into an organization is do a road map or sorry an assessment of where they are today. Um because a lot of times people have added um positions. They’ve just they’ve hired they’ve hired people and where they began is not
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): normally where they need to stay to grow.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): And so you’ll see stagnation and most of them have reached out to me at this point because they want to grow and they’re they’re not growing and they can see that it’s being stalled in some way and they know that things need to change right so they know things need to change but they don’t
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): I can’t figure it out. Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): quite know what and the first thing I do is the assessment and look at the org design and look at where they want to go.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Um and then do do we have the right roles first of all for now and for where we want to go almost especially probably the last 15 years almost each company that’s the first thing I had to do you’ve got the wrong people um or you’ve got the wrong people in the wrong roles or you don’t have the right roles at all
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): um and so that’s one of the first places we have to start and and a lot a lot of times Big Tobacco was one where they had aggressive um aggressive growth um goals.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Plans.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yeah.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): And plans and goals. And so they had it was the commercial function. They had 700 um people in sales and marketing. They wanted to grow to 1,200 but they were stagnant.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Hello wow.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): So they had they had the they had the they had the sales, they had the plan, they didn’t know if they had the right people because it was it was stagnant. They didn’t know if they had the right leaders.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): So we did a variation of things to start. We had 144 positions. We offered first of all voluntary retirement because they had a a few people that were at the age that could want to could retire. We got a good number there. Um and then we had to look at where we have duplication in roles where those roles aren’t the right roles that you need for the future. Um we came to 144 positions.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Wow.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): What they had typically done and historically done is hired people in the tobacco industry. um predominantly only people in tobacco.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Um I drew a comparison with consumer packaged goods and the the skill sets and the things that were similar and I said so let’s do this. Let’s open it up to consumer package goods. Anybody that has worked in consumer package goods filled those 144
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): All
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): positions, watched them for a year, had the data, they outperformed the other 600 plus um salespeople.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): right. Wow.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): We then opened 500 positions up in the consumer package goods and watched the difference. It changed the organization. It inspired, it motivated the organization. Now, what you have to do when you’re look doing something like this, and I know you’re going to probably ask me this,
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Sure.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): but there’s there’s some there’s a lot of things that you have to do well in making sure that people understand the why and um so that you can keep people motivated and people aren’t just now fearful for their jobs. So we I know that’s that’s that’s why that’s the why restructuring is probably one of the first things I do and not intentionally but that’s that’s when you’re doing an assessment and you have a plan for growth normally you have to
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): restructure it in some ways.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah. No, it makes sense. I I’ve been involved in layoffs as well and obviously there’s parts of it that are really not fun and the emotional side of,
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): most of it.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): you know, relaying the news to people.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): It’s it’s very challenging and and can be overwhelming. But I can clearly see the the need for for this. And I I’ve heard it said you you alluded to this of you know where you’ve the company that um you’ve been may not be the company that you need to be to get where you want to go. And so there is some growth um that needs to happen, some development. And I think when expectations are managed and there’s transparency, it does a lot for helping keep the engagement of those that stay, but also having the like true individual care for the people who are leaving.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Mhm.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): I loved how you said start with some voluntary uh retirement and
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yeah.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): find segments of the workforce that make sense to potentially voluntarily leave. Um but yeah, I think it’s naive to think that any company stays the same indefinitely. Just like people don’t stay the same person indefinitely.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Exactly.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Like we grow and change and evolve.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Right. Right.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): And so I think some in some way maybe as a society we need to look at um layoffs and corporate restructuring maybe not so negatively. I think it gets a bad rap when it’s not done well.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): That’s exactly what That’s exactly right.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah. So yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yeah.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): And I I think what you are is an outside perspective when you’re in it in your lane of this is what we do.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yeah.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): And like you said, they become s stagnant, but they don’t know why. And it’s not their fault. It’s not that they’re not smart or whatever. It’s because they need that outside perspective to come with a fresh look and say, “Let’s figure this out.” You know? So, oh, it looks like we can’t hear you for a second. Oh, now you’re back. Now you’re back.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Okay.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Just do that that same answer.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Because I was going to say um because a lot of times you hear them say, “Oh my god, they’ve been with me from the beginning.” Um you know,
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): they’re here every day.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): there. So those are those are just one part of the we have to see if they if they are able to grow with the growth because a lot of times the skill set especially for um smaller companies the skill set that made you successful in the beginning is because they’re able to do multiple things. They’re really scrappy.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Okay.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): They can do a lot with a with a little but as you grow the skill set that’s needed for growth changes. And this may be an excellent manager,
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): but what’s actually needed is a leader is somebody that can coach people that can actually, you know, bring them along the way as opposed to just,
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Mhm.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): you know, I’ll do most of it and you just do some of it. And we got talented people who are bored, who are not being challenged because they’re still being led by managers who have been used to and see their worth um by doing everything and not sharing how they do anything.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): So they see their their longevity.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Um if I don’t share too much of what I do, they can’t replace me. And so then you’ve got people who were hired to be to challenge the status quo and we’ve got these great goals and they’re talented and we’re not even tapping into the
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah,
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): talent because we’re not dealing and don’t know how to deal with a great
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): for sure. Mhm.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): manager when we need a really good leader. And so yes, so it takes someone coming in sometimes to challenge to challenge the status quo to to look at um and without looking at personalities just what are the roles that we need for this growth and I we can walk through you need these roles okay now we can look at who’s in those roles can they be
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): developed but it’s tough it is not an easy process by any means
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah. A disruption, I think, is an important thing for companies to have regularly, a pause in time where we we re-evaluate.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): And that’s what you do.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yeah.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): And so let’s dive into this a little bit because when I think of layoffs, you know, it it’s super sad for the people who get let go, but also the people who don’t get let go are affected by it hugely.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yeah.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): They they feel afraid for their own job,
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yep.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): thinking that maybe this won’t be the last one. They feel like now I’ve got more work maybe because I I’m taking on their
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yeah, absolutely. Mhm.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): responsibilities and you know and and then maybe they lost some friends,
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Mhm.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): right? It’s sad.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yeah. It could family,
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): So yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): right?
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): So how do you go about in the best possible way?
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yeah.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Obviously it’s best for business and what’s best for business really is best for the employees because a business has
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yeah.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): to be profitable and and reach those goals of growth to even employ the people that it
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yeah.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): has.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): That’s right.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): So yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yeah.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): So tell us like keeping morale is that possible and how do you do do that in a
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yeah.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): layoff?
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): So, let me I’ll use the example of the comp. Oh, sorry about that. I I’ll use the example of the company that um asked me to come to Utah and the reason I came to Utah and I’m sorry I said former I am actually still with them while I’m they’re going to be my client. We’ve got this whole thing going on.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Nice. Yeah. Yeah,
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Oh yeah.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): that’s great.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): And so
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Oh, if the audio went out for a sec again. Sorry. You’re good. You’re good. No worries. Here. Let’s Let’s wait till we hear you again. Not yet. Let’s see. No, no need to panic. We’ll just It’s It will come back on.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): No stress at all. Not yet. Not yet. If you need to like unplug, replplug or something.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): What about now?
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yes.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): No.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yep. Yes.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Okay,
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yep.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): I unplugged the mic.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): And Okay.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Let me see if it works.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Um,
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): And so you were just about and you literally were were stopped at the perfect time.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): yeah. Utah.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): You were just about to talk about blue chip group and
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So um so let me I’ll give you the example for what I’ve just gone through with the company that actually asked me to come to Utah. They had experienced triple um digits growth during the pandemic. Um so they asked me to come because they were at around 700 employees. they were around 200 plus million um revenue. They anticipated going to 700 million um within two years and a thousand employees.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): So they asked me to come to prepare the organization for growth, create the culture that’s needed. The the the CEO that was in place, he and I had worked together 12 years ago. So he called me and said I want you to create what we created when we worked
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Nice.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): together 12 years ago and that was exciting to me.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Nice.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): I can growth and re it’s restructuring right. So um I came in August of 2022 September was the first dip that we started to see from postcoid. So, we anticipated that we could um would probably have to reduce the the numbers by about seven people and we should be fine. So, the first one, no biggie. We did it, you know, the traditional way, the same day. Then we communicated with everyone after. Of course, the first thing was, okay, um but we’re we’re good. Yeah. Yeah. We should be just fine. So then we saw November it dipped more. January dipped.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): No.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): So we did another um we did another layoff in November. Another layoff in January, another layoff in March, another layoff in May.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Oh,
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): The final Yeah,
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): wow.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): it was brutal. So what the lessons learned along the way as well. I’ll talk about that. But how we did the first one is absolutely not how we did the third, the fourth, the fifth.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah. Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Because of course at this point fear is is what everybody is feeling every day that they come to work. Is it the next? We held town hall meetings because communication is key. But the the problem is we don’t know what to communicate because we know the number one question
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Right.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): is is this it? Is there more coming? We hope so. Um, one of the things that I took the organization and the leaders through because for the seauite they were the ones who were making the decisions. Toughest thing you’ll ever do.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Any leadership team, every leadership team, um, I hadn’t been there as long, so I don’t know these names. So HR I had to let them grieve privately looking at each name knowing who the people were who they were related to and then seuite had to go through the same process. There were men sat around the table crying because of the decisions that we had to make and every time we had to keep making them. So, One,
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): That’s pretty.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): allowing people is it am I still with you guys?
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yep. Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): One, allowing people to grieve. Allowing them one of the things we’re taught and it’s it’s for safety. We’re taught not to tell even the leaders whose people are going to be affected. Don’t tell them too soon because you fear that that could leak and they could tell people and that’s the worst thing that can happen is it just leaks out. you need to be,
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah. Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): you know, at one all at once.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): And so we got better. The first time it was same day leaders and the people who were affected, small group, no, you know, it was okay. But as we went along and we described it as, okay, trimming the fat first of all, then we would say, okay, now we’re going into muscle, now we’re going down to bone. Because that’s what it felt like.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): you’re looking at the names and the choices are good people against good people. But each time we had to have a consistent way that we looked at who we would choose and it was people who could do multiple jobs. So to your point, Christa,
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): yeah, people are very aware that they’re going to be doing more now. They’re going to be doing Susan’s job and John’s job. People know that. So, we had to communicate in a way that we understand and it is affecting us as well because we were affected as well. Um, the CEO who hired me was let go.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): He was affected. All of us put our hands up. At one point, I said, “Guys, I can go back to South Carolina. You have houses and families here.” That’s how brutal. We ended up with 620 people. We ended up with 50 people that were remained. it. This one was in my whole career the toughest I’ve ever done. So,
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Oh my goodness.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): so how did we keep people motivated? Hard hard to keep people motivated when they fear and sometimes the fear was reality. It was them next.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): But the consistent message was we’re trying to save jobs as soon as we recover from this because it’s happening too fast to recover. But we’ve got good people.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): We want to bring them back. We started telling people sooner. We told the managers sooner. I allowed each time I allowed time for grief and I would acknowledge that this is the hardest thing you will do as a leader.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): This will never get easier and it will never feel like, oh, this is easy. We’re good to go. It will never feel that way. It will always feel so unfair because at least with a termination, they did something wrong. with a layoff. They didn’t do anything wrong and especially for you revenue sales. We’ve lost sales. So people were looking at orders coming in.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Okay.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): They were watching it and saying there’s less orders than last month. Oh god, there’s another one coming. So, we just tried to communicate often. We did um town halls often. We would allow every question um and we would tell them number one question is this is are there more coming? The the truth was we hope not but there may be.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah. Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): We will treat people with respect and we did. We would um make sure that we had packages, information, connections, and I can talk more about about that. Um but we made sure that we we were respectful and they and and we treated them with dignity because the people who remained needed to see that you treated their friends well.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): And then there was survivor guilt because I’ve still got my job, but it was so bad. And so we we addressed that.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): We would allow I would allow people to just come and sit and talk to me and and say why why did they why were they chosen over me because I think they’re more talented than me and I feel bad and you know just explain that we had we’ve got so at this point we everyone’s talented and so that’s how we did it. We said what we know. I sat in my office and cried with people because it was hard. Um there was one person and oh she was so distraught. She was a survivor and I said you want to sit on the floor and we sat on the floor with each other side by side and just because it was hard and it was like a fringe and just sat till she could feel better and say thank you and I said you’re welcome and just both just dabbed tears away.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): But that’s how I’ve done it, guys. I’ve I’ve been real. I’ve been raw. I’ve been honest. That to leaders that Yeah. This the third and fourth ones. Oh, it’s going to be a brick. It never was. All sticks were hard.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Wow. So, so how did it go when you’re face to face with someone to let them go? Like I love that you you you’re you’re saying transparency is the way to go. Being straightforward,
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yeah.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): not beating around the bush.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yeah.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Um having clear reasons of why you chose one another one over the other.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yes.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Prepared.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yes.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): It seems like a good reason.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yes.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): But how did those in one of those meetings go?
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): So, yes. So, my philosophy is compassion with structure. Um I believe compassion with structure um brings clarity and it brings loyalty. And so, um I’m very careful with how I lead this.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): There is always a script for every leader. and a leader, the person leading the person has to do the the actual layoff and an HR person is with them. So there’s there’s a script for every leader.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Nice.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): So everybody is saying the same thing. It’s written from a place of compassion and structure. So it’s giving information and then HR then is in the room and they will talk about so in your packet here’s what’s in your packet. And so we always had um resources for them um recruiters that that already know about them. And if I had their resume, we sent their resume to recruiters already. And so there was always information that could help them get to the next step. Always did them at the same time because we would have people in different areas. We’d have warehouse people, manufacturing people and office. So it was all done between 1 and 1:30 for instance. And then at 2:00 we’re talking to the organization or leaders will then gather there.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Everything was scripted though. So that because it’s hard for leaders as well and so if you just them they’ll
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Nothing.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): I I’ve had it at other places where I had a lawyer who had to release her person and so had her script and she started with the script and then sorry and I realized okay I’ll take over and she’s
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Oh no, that’s so sad.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): like and and she’s like I’ll do anything to help you and I said script script script script script script script script because it’s it’s difficult.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): So HR is also there to get when they can because I’ve had I’ve had lots of leaders, men and women, um CEOs and blind leaders who are broken down in the middle and cannot you know finish their sentences. So um so I try and take as much that’s that’s structured. I try and put in structure so that um you can still be compassionate but you can follow it and and help you and then I build in the compassion with what was saying and then for people um immediately afterwards we meet with the people who remain and have a plan beforehand of then who will you go to for this and
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Okay.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): that. So the leaders will go through that with so people aren’t wondering um because
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): not left in the dust,
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): again right because that’s that’s I’ve seen that too and it’s two weeks later and
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): right?
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): it was like well where’s Susan? Oh she got laid off.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah. That’s not That’s not good.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Well who who do we you know and they’re still sending emails to her and so that’s one of the things about structure and compassion clarity.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah. Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): They’ve got to know now what why were they chosen and
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): How does this change affect me and my role?
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): broadly that’s right because everybody wants that.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah. Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Everyone knows wants to know how will this affect me and what what am I going to have to do now? Um so as we went along we started to inform sooner. We didn’t wait until the day of because, you know, it’s we’re with three in at this point.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): So we would tell them two weeks in advance so that they could start to mentally prepare um and you know physically prepare and if they needed to use PTO for that you just to help people be in control of at least their own because so with each one we reassessed
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): and learned from the last one and what should we do differently um because you need you need to be able to do that, especially when it’s something like what we were doing where it wasn’t going to be just once. It was going to be it ended up being several. And that’s that’s why that’s how we were able to help keep morale because people understood it and they understood and people would come and tell us, “I’m so sorry you have to do this.” Um because Yeah.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah, that’s rough for Thank you.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yeah. And we we we turned up human. We didn’t turn up as well. Okay, you know, this is what we’re doing today.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): No, turned up human because everyone every So that’s how we were able to keep morale.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): That’s how we kept turnover low because they they at least they didn’t like it, but they appreciated how we did it.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): They appreciated that it wasn’t easy to do. And it’s because we wanted to save the company and hopefully bring those people back one day. But we had to get through this.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah. And ultimately you did you saved the company.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): We did.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): So that’s that’s amazing.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): We did.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): That’s that’s you know all the people that still have jobs and the positive impact that the business makes in the world. Like that’s something to protect and save. And I think when you approach it, you know, with some strategy and some empathy, it makes a huge difference. Like I’m thinking about our kids, our little kids. You know, we talk about you can say something that someone doesn’t want to hear,
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yeah.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): but you can say it nicely or not nicely.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Right.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): You can say sorry like I’m sorry or I’m really sorry, you know,
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yeah.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): like the way that you deliver that message makes a huge difference.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yep. Right.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): And I think or adults need to learn that too.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): So true. So true.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): And uh yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Because you can deliver difficult news or you can have difficult conversations and be I I’ve had Oh god, I can’t tell. Well, of course I’ve had difficult convers. I’m HR. I have all of them. But but there’s a way people people want to know the truth. Don’t they don’t want to be sugarcoated. They want to know and there so many times I have told people that you’re in the wrong role and where I think you are suited and then we have a discussion about what do they actually love doing and it’s a different pay and normally it’s a lower pay. So they’re like no no no I love what I do and they’re not doing it well and they’re miserable every day.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): they go home miserable because they’re they’re not feeling accomplished.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): And sometimes when you have that difficult conversation and you realize and understand that, oh my god, that’s what you love to do. Actually, how would you feel if that’s what you were doing every day and you can and then give them a career
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah. Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): path? There’s a path they can do. They can still grow. Um, but it does take just having conversations, just getting involved. The restructuring is one part of it, but if you don’t do all the rest of it, you’ve lost people along the way.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Mhm.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): So the restructuring is necessary, but the way you do it, to your point, Matt, the way you say it and the way you do it is so important. And they can feel leave feeling respected, heard, seen, and valued.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): We’ve seen Oh,
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Even if you’re No,
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): sorry.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): no. I was just going to say even if they’re failing in the job that they’re doing today.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): We’ve seen lots of layoffs in our own community and on the LinkedIn community as well. And you know,
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yeah,
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): it’s always rough initially, but you see pick people pick themselves back up. People are adaptive.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): absolutely.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): They and they often times end up better than they were before, just like you were saying.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Mhm.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): And so ultimately, let’s give them a a sweet memory of the the possibly bad experience like so it’s not just this bitter bitter memory in their in their minds and hearts.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yeah.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): And so that’s that’s what I think our listeners that’s what you need to do is just
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yeah.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): make it as positive as it possibly can be. And so everything you shared was spoton and thank you so much for your time today and your wisdom and expertise. Everyone go connect with Hyacinth.She really is a wealth of knowledge and a super friendly person if you didn’t couldn’t tell by this whole podcast. But anything else you want to say?
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): go to my website. Oh,
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yes. Go ahead.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): I was just going to say I’ve actually um created a form that companies can go through to see where they are and rate themselves from a restructuring perspective
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Oh, cool. Nice.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): and they can and so go to my website sda-peoplepartners.com. You can connect with me there. you can connect with me on LinkedIn. um happy to send that form to happy to you know from an
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah. Love it.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): advisory however I can however I can support partner with because because as I said it’s the hardest thing most companies will do if you do it right though um Christa to your point I mean probably 100% of the time that I’ve seen people recover and find new passions but they do find their way but you can actually do it in a where you retain the people, motivate the people, build loyalty even with the people that remain because of the way they they that you did
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): it. The way you made the people who left feel and the way you made the people that remain. pain. The people that stayed, how you made them feel, they will stay with you.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah. Yeah. No, that’s a perfect way to end. And everyone, we’ll make sure to link to those resources that Hyasin mentioned. So, thank you again and we’ll stay tuned.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Absolutely. Thank you guys.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Yeah.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Thank you for having me.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): Thank you, Hyacinth.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Yeah. Thank you for giving me the opportunity.
Matt & Crista Vance (Co-hosts): We’ll see everybody next time.
Hyacinth Morrison (Guest): Bye. Thank you guys.
