Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): We’re super excited to have Ally Brown here calling in from North Carolina to talk about employer branding. Um, it’s definitely something that some people don’t understand or confuse about the elements that you can do to really showcase your brand, but she’s a true expert in this space and we’re really excited to jump into it. So, Ally, thanks for joining us today.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): Yeah, thank you Matt and Christa for having

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah, we’re so excited and and we’re excited to kind of dive into what Matt was saying and and also the

 

Alison Brown (Guest): me.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): tie that happens with, you know, taking care of your people and and how that ties into the profits and and so a little bit more about Ally. She leads employer brand and recruitment marketing at VCA Animal Hospitals, a leader in veterinary care and part of the Marge family of brands. In this role, she developed an award-winning employer brand from the ground up and is bringing it to life through content, storytelling, and experiences with 15 years of diverse marketing and brand experience across multiple industries, automotive, software, hospitality, and commercial real estate.
 
  
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): That is quite the like all over. That’s amazing. A lot of perspective. 

She has created What’s that?

 

Alison Brown (Guest): now veterinary.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah, I know. Seriously, you’ve just dabbled at everything.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): So

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): That’s awesome. She has created sustainable results and award-winning programs for companies by engaging the company’s most powerful asset, their people. And we can agree on that completely. She holds a bachelor’s degree from Ohio University and is a certified employer brand strategist. Outside of work, she loves traveling, skiing, and spending time with family, including her fur human. What kind of dog do you have?

 

Alison Brown (Guest): I have a golden

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Oh, nice.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): doodle.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): And I have to ask, where do you ski? Does North Carolina have skiing or do you travel to do that?

 

Alison Brown (Guest): Uh, North Carolina has skiing, but not the kind that we like.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Okay.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): So, we typically travel uh out west. So,

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Have you been to Utah before?
 

 
Alison Brown (Guest): I have been to Utah.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Okay.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): Yes.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): What resort have you gone to here?

 

Alison Brown (Guest): Yeah. Park City,

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Okay. Yeah, that’s awesome. In high school,

 

Alison Brown (Guest): Snowbird.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): I had a season pass to Park City. It’s a good resort. We had a crazy winter this year, though. Not much snow and people are still going, but they like skiing on mud or something. Not the best year for uh Yeah. So, skiing in Utah. Well, that’s awesome. So, tell us a little bit more about your diverse background and kind of how you went from marketing to employer branding. I’d love to hear more about

 

Alison Brown (Guest): Yeah. Well,

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): that.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): my career really hasn’t been a straight line. I went to school for art and really loved um the process and the creativity around that but realized I needed to figure out money and at the time um I couldn’t you know see a path to that right out of college.
 

 
Alison Brown (Guest): So, uh,

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): It’s

 

Alison Brown (Guest): my creativity really found and I to

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): not

 

Alison Brown (Guest): grow my career and focus on employers and I employ people who attend conferences. And I think also what really interested me in this niche of marketing is that early in my career, I experienced some questionable cultures. When I did experience what a good culture was, I became really interested in the connection between culture and performance.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): That’s awesome. Yeah. So, sorry we’re having Can you hear us? Okay. Okay. You’re you, you were lagging a bunch.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): Yeah.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): I don’t know why cuz when we were talking before the recording everything was perfect but like right when you started sharing about that it just started lagging a bunch. Um let’s let’s get it

 

Alison Brown (Guest): Do you want me to see if we need to

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): back.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): We record that

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. Yeah. Maybe if I can ask that question again.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): part.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): But let’s let’s get it.
 
  
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Sorry. I’m not sure if it’s on our end or or your end, but let’s just see. Yeah. Are you gonna check our internet maybe? Okay. Yeah, ours seems fine. We’re getting 215 megabits per second. That was weird. Yeah, I think it was better just to still that is it like still recording or

 

Alison Brown (Guest): Okay, I switched to 5G.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Okay,

 

Alison Brown (Guest): So if it is my

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): let’s see how that works. Yeah, better.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): end,

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah, it’s looking clear again. Yeah, it was just so random because like we’re just talking,

 

Alison Brown (Guest): perfect.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): everything’s good, and then I asked you a question and then all of a sudden we’re like, wait, we can’t hear her. So,

 

Alison Brown (Guest): So sorry. Well, yeah,

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): no.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): go ahead. Ask the question again.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah, I’m sorry to make you say that all again, but that would be great.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): No

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Okay, awesome.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): worries.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): So, we’ll just like have a little pause so that we can clip that part out 

and then and then I’ll ask you. Okay. So, Ally,

 

Alison Brown (Guest): Perfect.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): tell us a little bit more about your market marketing background and how that led to employer branding.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): So, yeah, my career uh really hasn’t been a straight line. I went to school for art because that was something I really enjoyed and loved the creativity and process of it. But then I realized after college that I needed to make money. So my

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Every poor art student,

 

Alison Brown (Guest): creativity,

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): you know, they go through that journey.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): right? Exactly. So my creativity then found its way to marketing and now I’ve been uh focused on employer brand for the past eight years.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Nice.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): And when I was recruited into my first employer brand role, I didn’t even know what employer brand was. But um since then have attended many conferences, with people across the field and um you know have learned a lot and uh I think early in my career I experienced some questionable cultures.
 

 
Alison Brown (Guest): So when I did experience what a good culture was, I became really interested in that connection between culture and performance.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah, there is such a close tie and that’s what we’ve seen as well. And so I’d love to hear more about your opinion on the tie between the two and and maybe even if you want to share some things that you saw in those companies that you were like this is not a good culture and not okay.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): Yeah, I don’t know if I want to get into um you know

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): You don’t have to say names for sure.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): the typical things that you see right like um having you know working

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): long hours or um not you know valuing people or recognizing people. Um but I do think yeah that that culture that you have really

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): does impact how people feel at work and how they behave. And I also think that you know it’s really connected to

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Heat.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): your employer brand as well.
 
  
Alison Brown (Guest): So kind of the way that I like to think about it is that culture is the collective u personality right the values beliefs and the attitude and you know as we know how people

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Mhm.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): interact and work good son right so but then the brand is the collective feeling so that’s what people feel what people feel and think about and what their connection is to it. And so the culture can impact what people think about a company and can impact the brand. And the brand can change people’s attitude toward the company if done in the right way.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): I think uh that was one of the best explanations I’ve heard of what culture is and what branding is because for a lot of people it’s this kind of they look separate too. They’re never Yeah. It’s like hard to, you know, put your finger on what is um culture and what is brand. So, you know, those social norms and how work gets done and branding, what you feel and think and your connection to it.
 
  
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): I love that. I do have a follow-up question. So, a lot of the people that listen to the show are uh primarily coming from an HR background and you’ve got this really strong marketing background. And a lot of companies, they’re asking an HR professional to put a marketing hat on and think like a marketer when maybe they haven’t had that formal um education in the space. Um what do you say to that HR manager like just a couple highlight crash course key principles around marketing that really make employer branding what it is.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): That’s a good question. Um, and I think the biggest piece of advice would be to think about the audience and really know your audience. Um, and that’s usually the biggest thing in marketing and branding as well, right? You have to know your consumer. Um, you have to know your product too, but it’s even more important that you know your consumer. So,

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): so really knowing how your employees feel and then like putting that hat on when you’re marketing branding for them.
 

 
Alison Brown (Guest): And it was, you know, for a while all about the authenticity and it still is, but um now it’s more about the type of storytelling and the uh type of like, you know, Tik Tok style content. Uh but I think, you know, where it’s gone is that having a careers blog or a career social media isn’t enough anymore. um that there’s three things. Um first, it needs to be tied to your strategy. And by that I mean your business strategy and your HR people strategy. So to do this you want to use whatever data that you have whether it’s um engagement surveys, brand surveys um to guide really what your storytelling framework is. So think about whether we need to go then? What stories will help us get there? What do we want to reinforce with our employees? and think about it like what themes you can uh put into place and what different formats or repeatable um content formats that you want to carry through that storytelling. Um and also part of the strategy is about how you’re finding the stories.
 
 

 
Alison Brown (Guest): So maybe if you have a recognition program or an engagement survey, those are things that you can look at. Uh, of course, your employee resource groups as well and other organizations like that are always great to tap into.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): Um,

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah, definitely. No, I completely agree. And like when we’ve talked previously, we talked a little bit about just the specific example of PTO and you can offer a lot of PTO, but if you don’t have the culture and that support surrounding that, then you don’t have people feeling like they can use it.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): Exactly. And so the second thing um that is really important to this uh storytelling strategy is that you know don’t just tell a story about like PTO in general like tell a story about like a specific person like oh when Ally went on that ski trip um which I actually just went on a recent ski trip and went hella skiing for the first time. It’s awesome.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): How was that? That is so cool.
 
  
Alison Brown (Guest): So like that I in Telluride,

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Where did you do that?

 

Alison Brown (Guest): Colorado.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Wow, that’s

 

Alison Brown (Guest): Yeah.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): awesome.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): So those little details though, like everyone that listens or watches this podcast will remember that, right?

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. Yeah.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): And so those are what makes things um make the stories memorable.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah,

 

Alison Brown (Guest): So

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): I have a friend that, you know, if she were just to hear PTO, PTO, PTO, she’d be like snoozefest, right? So, it really does. It makes it more memorable, more like somebody’s going to be able to put themselves in their shoes and imagine themselves working for BCA Animal Hospitals or or wherever it is. They’re going to be able to kind of apply it more to themselves because it’s personal, more of an emotional connection for sure. Yeah, I love

 

Alison Brown (Guest): Yeah.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): that.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): And my third um thing would be that um you need to amplify the stories now. that it no longer really works if you’re solely relying on organic.
 
  
Alison Brown (Guest): Um, and though it takes budget, right, to have paid media, right, to amplify to the right audience, but I would use uh focus on quality over quantity and take a more targeted approach. So maybe you don’t need as much content, you just need the right content to reach the right people. And so instead of spending as much producing, you know, a post for every day of the week, maybe focus your efforts on fewer um posts, but really making sure that they get in front of the right people. Because we all know with the social algorithms and all the noise out there today, it’s really hard to reach people.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. So, you mentioned using some budget. So, are we talking like Google Ads, LinkedIn, like what have been kind of your go-to or do you try to diversify how you spend that budget?

 

Alison Brown (Guest): Yeah, I think um Meta, so both Facebook and Instagram and um LinkedIn are still

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): the tried and true platforms.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah,

 

Alison Brown (Guest): Um Tik Tok’s great as well.
 

 
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): for sure.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): if you have a Tik Tok presence. If not, you can um do it. You can amplify 

your employees content through spark codes or things like

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Oh

 

Alison Brown (Guest): that, some like content creators.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): yeah.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): But um and then Google helps to have those ads running for conversion. So after people see the ads, then when they go to search for jobs, are yours popping up?

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah, I like that. And just to follow up because I’d love to get your perspective on employee advocacy. Um as far as you know, I love those three, you know, aligning your storytelling with strategy. Um two, making it personal, and three, amplifying. But I’ve also heard that when a brand posts, it has less reach than when a person posts. And I know like on LinkedIn specifically, you can promote posts of employees and you mentioned that with Spark on Tik Tok. Have you seen that that’s more effective than posts from the brand accounts, the company accounts?
 

 
Alison Brown (Guest): Yeah, definitely. Um, we actually started doing I would say employee advocacy kind of in a non-traditional way. So we wanted to reach more vet students and so we worked with uh vet student creators and had them share about VCA through their lens and their experience. So they weren’t necessarily uh employees of VCA,

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Wow.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): but many of them had experiences at VCA, whether they um took their pet to a VCA before or some of them do what we call an externship. It’s kind of like a two-week program where you can come work at our hospital or maybe they worked as a technician or assistant before they went to vet school. So, they had some sort of previous experience with the company. Um, but having them share their stories, um, definitely we saw higher engagement across all of those posts. And I think there’s the um Edelman stat that was published a while ago that says that people trust the employees’ content three times more than the companies.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah,

 

Alison Brown (Guest): So that holds

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): totally.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): true.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): That’s way more than the company post. So definitely something to focus on and not ignore, not overlook. Um the voice of your people is very powerful and that’s a very outside of the box approach. I have not heard someone using that uh strategy and that’s yeah really really smart. Um I had a question. So you’re working at VC Animal Hospitals which is a very big organization. So would you change anything, change your advice at all or or have a recommendation for someone who’s working at wanting to do these things, wanting to accomplish these things, but they’re working with a much smaller budget and maybe working, you know, at a much smaller company. What would you change your strategy to adapt to that? How would you change that?

 

Alison Brown (Guest): I don’t think I would because uh outside of the amplifying posts, nothing, you know, that I shared is something that’s really a lot of budget. Um and you know you can with uh social
 

 
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): media ads you can you know work with a small budget and still get some good results

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): depending on the size of the audience that you’re trying to reach. So a smaller company trying to reach a smaller audience doesn’t need as much budget.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Right.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): So I think the same strategy applies no matter the industry,

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Right.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): no matter the company size that it still

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): I think you can confidently say that because you you’ve worked in veterinary,

 

Alison Brown (Guest): works.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): you’ve worked in commercial real estate. You’re like, “Yeah, this is the strategy, guys.” Yeah, I love that. and that shows that this strategy works and that you have the confidence to say that and I agree. So just maybe your budget is less so you’re just using less budget and you’re reaching a smaller audience. Yeah. Yeah. I think that you found a really good recipe for success. I like that. So um any other advice that you would share from your experience around employer branding as we’re kind of wrapping up here?
 

 
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): you any words of

 

Alison Brown (Guest): Well, I know um you know I’m looking at your book behind

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): wisdom.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): um behind you there review cycle and so I think it’s important right for the culture and brand to connect to really take that employee input and feedback and show it and bring it to life too. So, you know, at BCA, we have surveys. We’re responding to our glass door reviews and there’s programs out there too to share ideas. But what I think is really important is that when you’re communicating these new initiatives or changes in your organization that you share that it was an employee idea so that people know and they see that action like oh they really are listening and um that they are encouraged to then continue giving feedback. So that I think is really important. And then like the brand, you know, we always like to say like you don’t want to get sold the sports car, right? And then show up to the company and it’s not the sports car you expected.
 

 
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Right.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): You want to make sure that the culture that you’re marketing on the outside matches what’s on the inside. And one of the ways that as an employer brand manager that you can help do that um is by making sure the feedback is shared with the right people. So having a protocol in place to escalate and share your glass door reviews and um sharing that survey data with HR with business leaders. So, I think that’s really important to make sure that the brand comes full circle and it isn’t just

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): trip.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): about like what you’re putting out there, but you make the connection to what it actually is

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah. Full full circle transparency.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): like.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): you’re what you’re putting out is what you are and what’s coming what you’re going to get from those you recruit, right? And I think you’re really smart to pay attention to both those internal feedback loops with surveys and suggestions and other things on the inside, but also the external feedback loop that’s shaping perceptions and behaviors with glass door reviews and other employee reviews.
 
 
Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): and taking both of those data sets um replying or reporting back to your team to close that feedback loop and then escalating to leadership that’s very powerful um and I think you’re spot on. I mean that’s where a lot of the strategy gets formed um at the very beginning is to understand what people are thinking and feeling and um the internal and external pieces. It’s kind of like bringing it back to the beginning of the conversation when you talked about branding versus culture. I mean, they’re related but distinct and um and I think those external and internal feedback

 

Alison Brown (Guest): This

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): loops can really help um formulate strategy on both sides. I think that’s awesome, Ally. We’ve learned so much and I know others listening have too. We’re so grateful to have this conversation today and uh really appreciate everything you’ve shared. Um thanks for joining us today.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): Yes, of course. Thanks for having me and thanks for listening and feel free to connect on

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Yeah, we’ll include a link to her LinkedIn and also to on our highlight article and

 

Alison Brown (Guest): LinkedIn.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): and to any other resources that she has to share with you guys. So, tune in next time, leave us a review and thank you so much, Ally. Such a great conversation today. Yeah, thank you.

 

Alison Brown (Guest): Have a good day.

 

Matt & Crista Vance (Hosts): Thank you.